anonniemouse: (Default)
anonniemouse ([personal profile] anonniemouse) wrote in [community profile] tf_talk2015-04-09 12:58 pm

continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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(Anonymous) 2015-04-15 12:15 am (UTC)(link)
How he identifies/relfects on his past sexual relationships is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I don't think it's something we need to speculate on.

I think discussing how Andy frames his previous relationships is pretty damn critical, considering he routinely rewrites history frame himself as the victim and whitewashes his abuse of his romantic partners.

TRANSFAIL

In his own words, Andy "isn't trans, stop fucking misgendering me." Someone smarter than I has already posted about the fact that Andy demands all the accommodations of a trans identity, but rejects the identity itself.

You can't have it both ways, anon. You cannot demand respect for Andy's identity by rejecting his own statements about the identity he has. If your argument is that people get to define their own experiences however they like, then can Andy really be victimized by "transfail" when he claims to be cis?

If you do consider Andy trans, would that not mean you're rejecting the concept that people are the absolute arbiters of their identity and experiences?

I agree these are thorny issues to sort out, and I'm trans. I would suggest that the hysterical rhetoric surrounding Andy's gender plays right into hands, because it silences people and shuts down discussions. People of good faith can disagree or slip up. Screaming for the mods every time this happens is not productive.

Total fucking strangers (or anyone) do NOT get to come up and use ANY trans person's former public ways of identifying their sexuality and gender as "proof" of lying, for fuck's sake. This is basic fucking shit.

Yeah, except that isn't what happened. The "proof of his lying" has to do with the nature of his questioning, which did not start with a man, but a woman. Andy's claim that he fucked a guy just to figure out if he was gay was untrue. It was a full blown romantic relationship. Andy's old LJ where he runs through his relationship with his first boyfriend has been posted here:

http://tf-talk.dreamwidth.org/600.html?thread=8024#cmt8024

Clearly Andy isn't "projecting his identity" back as a rule. Remember when he told Rhys he was the first man to ever make Andy question "hetero-all-the-things"? He projects his identity back selectively, when and if it serves his purposes. He uses it as a tool manipulate or love bomb prospective victims.

Lest we forget, Andy has even written notes as female-identified Amy Player within the last few years:

http://tf-talk.dreamwidth.org/600.html?thread=34392#cmt34392

Remember when Andy wrote that he was using his "transgender leanings" to manipulate a mark? Along with heterosexual, lesbian and bisexual identities?

http://tf-talk.dreamwidth.org/600.html?thread=88408#cmt88408

Exploring heteroflexible with transgender and/or lesbian leanings, sassy, liberal, rampantly slashy, definitely thinks all the boys were doing it, and probably the girls too. Needs a little hand-holding, but given an inch, willing to explore a mileā€¦

That doesn't mean Andy isn't trans, of course, but it does demonstrate that he's happy to use that identity to manipulate others, then disown it when it suits him.

The bigger question might be, why does it matter if Andy tells lies like this about his past? I saw people handwave the post about his Irish heritage too, saying it was irrelevant.

Abbey touched on this when she said Andy tells hundreds upon hundreds of little lies. Those "little lies" that "don't matter" eventually add up to form an enormous pile of bullshit, making it difficult as hell to assess the truth about anything Andy says.

More importantly, these are lies that Andy has told very recently, which proves that Andy is still adhering to his old patterns. It also suggests to me that contrary to his claims, he doesn't hold any principles about identification. It's just another tool in his arsenal.
anonymod: (Default)

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[personal profile] anonymod 2015-04-15 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
New helper mod here, shutting this down for two reasons:

1. basic legalistic stuff; anonniemouse already shut this thread down and you are attempting to circumvent that. Please respect that mod decision, rules are important to the community's functioning properly &etc!

anonniemouse's stated reasons for closing this thread:

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you here and I don't think it's relevant to the things Andy is doing NOW. How he identifies/relfects on his past sexual relationships is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I don't think it's something we need to speculate on.

2. You're right, Andy does tell hundreds upon hundreds of little lies that stack up. However, folks who do not identify as cisgendered or heterosexual have their identities questioned in hundreds upon hundreds of little ways every day, and having this discussion right now is not worth adding to that pile and contributing to the general lack of safety in the world for those people.

If this is a conversation that is important to you, there are other places to have it (such as the andy-related tags on tumblr, where it is relatively simple to create a sock account and posts are relatively visible). I'm not comfortable hosting it here, as this is a very thin line to tread and there are hundreds upon hundreds of other little lies to dissect without looking for them in this specific corner.
Edited 2015-04-15 00:46 (UTC)

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(Anonymous) 2015-04-15 02:15 am (UTC)(link)
NA who just wants to commend you on your choice of icon. Jinkies!
anonymod: (Default)

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[personal profile] anonymod 2015-04-15 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you!
anonymod: (Default)

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[personal profile] anonymod 2015-04-16 01:41 am (UTC)(link)