Someone wrote in [community profile] tf_talk 2015-04-09 04:52 pm (UTC)

DAYD February 23rd 2010

Remember the time when we were talking about the thing... thanfiction wrote in daydverse February 23rd, 2010

One of the fun things about the chat rooms, both LJ and Skype, is that it can quickly become impromptu storytime, Q&A, or realtime debate.  Unfortunately, most of the comm doesn't get to see that, and even the people who just aren't there at that moment often miss out.  However, the good news is that chat clients keep logs, and a lot of us have saved our favorite discussions.  So here's a post where you can pose that great delving into the psyche of Snape, the sorting of sorting, the noble and most ancient backstory of Black, as long as you pay attention to a few little guidelines:

1. Save the chat as a text file, HTML file, or post on your personal LJ and link to it, do not post the whole thing here.

2. If the chat occurred on Skype, or any other client that shows real names, you MUST do a find-replace and substitute real names for LJ screennames before posting.  NO EXCEPTIONS.  That includes in-text.  

3. ALL personal material must be edited out.  That includes but is not limited to people talking about their day, mood, health, love life, personal life, job life, school life...ANYTHING that is not fandom related. 

4. Any chat that contains sensitive material in the context of the chat (someone talking about empathy with a character because of their own difficult experience, for example) MUST be cleared with that person or those people first.  If they say no, it doesn't go up.  Period.

5. Give a rough summary of what the chat is about in your comment and link.  "This is where Bob, Cfc, and I discussed Bill Weasley's fear of camels, with a digression into Platypuses on the Dragon Reserve in Wales."

6. Make sure to mark for both spoilers and warnings, and give a rough rating on the chat log, as you would a fic.

7. The chat needs to be relevant to the 'verse.  While minor tangents are fine, that awesome debate we had about whether or not Kathryn Janeway was a better Captain than Benjamin Sisko doesn't belong here, sadly.  Very sadly indeed.  Nor does the exploration into multilingual words for "water" and the way the predominant sounds of a language affect the structure of their poetry, our favorite 80s music, or how to make a catapult out of a can of carrots and a plastic spoon.  Even though we mentioned Luna while we were doing it.

8. Use common sense, and in the words of the immortal Bill and Ted, be excellent to one another.


Let the chatter begin!


Tags: information

( 15 comments — Use Your Galleon )

Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

m_oquinn

2010-02-24 06:15 am (UTC)

This is an edited SkypeRoR chat with thanfiction, angakkuq_10, ceirdwenfc, faeriegal713 and several others that started out as a rant on the title of a than-vid and turned into a discussion on Harry Potter's sanity. 

There is long chat version with lots of side tangents

http://m-oquinn.livejournal.com/3709.html

And a shorter version that is just the Harry relevant pieces

http://m-oquinn.livejournal.com/4044.html

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Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

blazzano

2010-02-25 07:44 am (UTC)

Interesting discussion there. I have a few thoughts on Harry's death march at the end of Deathly Hallows.... 

Leaving aside the larger issues of possible personality changes in books 5 to 7, I actually have no particular problems with his mental state leading up to his walking into the forest clearing - that is, I do not consider it OOC or feel that a Horcrux-influence hypothesis is required to explain it (though it can't be entirely discounted, of course). Yes, his internal mood is strikingly different from his other brushes with death. As a reader, I would be unsatisfied if there were no apparent reason for that difference. But I believe that, for Harry, the situation was sufficiently unique to allow for it.

The human mind is an engine of complex thought and logic, coexisting with emotionality. Below this, we have an ancient foundation of instinct. Under situations of high stress, instinct will often rise to the forefront and influence a person's decisions. For sentients like us, instincts are both a curse and a blessing. They can inadvertently lead us into deeper trouble, yes, but they can also help us survive in situations that require a quicker or more absolute response than the intellectual mind can deliver.

One of the most ancient and important instincts is "fight or flight": the instinct - which we share with most complex animals on earth - to either flee from a source of danger or meet it head on. The lower mind prepares the body for this situation by dumping in adrenaline, increasing one's heart and respiration rate, etc. In the Harry Potter series, almost all of Harry's brushes with death call upon these instincts, IMO. The Chamber of Secrets? Harry chooses to fight to save his loved ones; once the fighting actually started, it came down to instinct-driven ducking, rolling, and stabbing. Philsopher's Stone? An intellectual pursuit that became fight/flight for Harry after he was captured by Quirrell. Goblet of Fire? Well, before we got to see him flying circles around dragons, we read about his intense fear of the coming task. Once the task actually started, he was well-served by his instinctive reaction - it helped keep him from being roasted alive while he figured out how to grab the egg. Later in the book, he was cornered by Voldemort in the graveyard and given no choice but to fight - and then to flee for his life.

In short, even where there's room for Harry to second-guess himself and doubt his path before he's fights (or flees), eventually things progress to the point where intellectual anguish is irrelevant, and there's nothing left to it but to give into the instincts that had served him so well. The same is true for the DA in book 7 as well: all their long months of planning, strategizing, and training boiled down to a few hours of adrenaline-pumping running, ducking, fighting, and killing.

Harry's march to death is different from all of those, IMO. He was not fighting in the literal, instinct-driven sense. He was not fleeing in order to save his skin. He was completely rejecting the influence of an instinct which at that moment must have been thundering through his mind as strongly as it ever did. He was steeling himself up for a death where instincts were useless; sure, he was still fighting for his friends, but in a way that's comprehensible only with abstract intellect. 

He did not know that his actions would give his friends magical protection from Voldemort - so far as his instincts and higher mind were concerned, what he was doing was suicide. In all his previous situations, he rushed into danger despite the likelihood of death, yet hoped that he would live. In this situation, he was actively seeking out death. As he would have seen it, the payback for that suicide was merely that Voldemort might die - eventually, and after God only knew how many more deaths of his friends. 

(to be continued)

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Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

blazzano

2010-02-25 07:45 am (UTC)

IMO, the difference between fighting for your life and calmly walking into the jaws of death, while consciously choosing to not struggle, without even the luxury of knowing that your decision will save your friends in the long run, is vast. So I don't think one can cite his death march anguish as evidence that his personality has changed, because I believe he had never been in a situation like that before. I forgive and understand his needing to angst about it, especially since he went through with it after all.

Er, wow, I didn't know I had that much to say on the subject. 0_0 I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with Harry's character in AP, by the way, Than.

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Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

bluealoe

2010-02-25 03:32 pm (UTC)

Man, I was going to write a reply explaining why I didn't see Harry's death march as OOC, but I see you've already done that, and explained things much better than I could. Suffice it to say I agree with you 100%.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

zeviz

2010-02-26 03:21 am (UTC)

Good point. Both your explanation and Than's sound equally reasonable to me. (His is obviously more dramatic, but that tends to be his style.)

About whether DH epilogue implies a happy or a sad ending, my guess is that JKR wrote herself into a corner by her description of the final battle, because there was too much death in that battle for the classic "and they lived happily ever after" happy ending she was aiming for. That's my guess about why the epilogue is so focused on two families, with only a couple mentions of others. This way she could write the expected "happily ever after" scene, leaving all the unhappiness offscreen.

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Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

blazzano

2010-02-26 05:12 am (UTC)

That's quite true, re: the unhappiness being cut out. In fact, in the immediate aftermath of the battle, I suspect that even Harry's unhappiness was quite fierce (though nothing on the families with even greater losses, true enough). If there was one thing that consistently bothered Harry, it was people dying for him. I imagine that he slept a good 24 hours or so, and then woke up to a rather unpleasant reality as he finally had the leisure to examine the cost of the battle.

I suppose I can accept that she didn't want to cover that in the book itself. But though it's too much to hope for, I'd love to see Rowling release a nice little collection of ficlets - she could intersperse them into the entries of the encyclopedia she's supposed to be writing. She could cover a heck of a lot of the missing bits if she wanted to, including the long road to recovery in the Wizarding world.

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Re: Harry Potter-OOC or was it the Horcrux? Chat

zeviz

2010-02-26 07:02 pm (UTC)

She could cover a heck of a lot of the missing bits if she wanted to, including the long road to recovery in the Wizarding world.

My guess is that she doesn't want to admit (even to herself) that there would have to be a long road to recovery. She set off writing a Disney-style fairy tale about an unhappy boy finding a magic world. A variation on a Cinderella story, which ends in marriage, and happiness, and everybody living happily ever after.

The problem happened when she made the books grow along with the protagonist. It was a great idea, but she wasn't ready, or perhaps willing, to deal with the full implications of the resulting genre shift. Even while talking about her protagonist's realization that even magic can't solve all problems, adults and authority figures aren't all-powerful, etc, she still couldn't abandon her Dysney-style fairy tale roots.

This is a potential explanation for why "the later books don't live up to their full potential": to do so, she'd have to switch genres completely and write something in the style of DAYD and AP, which would be as out of character for her as writing happy shiny rainbows would be for Thanfiction.

So while Rowling might be forced to write a few more books, they are likely to focus on world-building, and gloss over the darker themes that she'd have to deal with if she went into too much detail about the battle of Hogwarts, or the fate of the secondary characters.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

zeviz

2010-02-24 07:03 am (UTC)

Thank you for this idea. It will be good to see the logs from fun chats that I've missed. I'll also see if I have anything to upload.

"While minor tangents are fine, that awesome debate we had about whether or not Kathryn Janeway was a better Captain than Benjamin Sisko doesn't belong here, sadly. Very sadly indeed. Nor does the exploration into multilingual words for "water" and the way the predominant sounds of a language affect the structure of their poetry, our favorite 80s music, or how to make a catapult out of a can of carrots and a plastic spoon. Even though we mentioned Luna while we were doing it."
But those were the most fun. :( :P

(Reply) (Thread)

ceirdwenfc

2010-02-24 01:20 pm (UTC)

>5. Give a rough summary of what the chat is about in your comment and link. "This is where Bob, Cfc, and I discussed Bill Weasley's fear of camels, with a digression into Platypuses on the Dragon Reserve in Wales."

I still say that his fear of camels is grounded in falling off one at the Wizarding Petting Zoo when he was five. I don't know why he went to Egypt in the first place right out of Hogwarts.

And Bob agrees with me about the platypuses. Cross-species inter-mating should not be done on the Reserve and certainly not within the view of the other platypuses.

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Seamus, Stephen, Rowan and lots of Lavender

m_oquinn

2010-02-26 08:50 am (UTC)

Kate_lb needed some info for Stephen's 20 she is writing-but thanfiction got side-tracked to Seamus-then moved to Stephen, which led to Rowan who somehow got us to Lavender. Enjoy :-)

http://m-oquinn.livejournal.com/4954.html

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Jack Sloper Skype Chat

m_oquinn

2010-02-26 08:52 am (UTC)


Lots of info from thanfiction on Jack Sloper

http://m-oquinn.livejournal.com/5960.html?#cutid1

(Reply) (Thread)

elen_nare

2010-03-01 05:13 pm (UTC)

It's great to read these transcripts! Thank you for posting them, m_oquinn.

And I know the link sidebar is getting rather long, but could this be there too? I worry it might just drop off the main page and fade away otherwise.

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Skype ROR chat - Demelza, Colin, Sally-Anne, Diana Stemple, Jamie Stebbins, Sword Adventure

elen_nare

2010-03-09 12:24 am (UTC)

Information on Demmy, Sally-Anne, Diana and Jamie, plus a bit about Colin, the Sword adventure, and selection to attend Hogwarts.

http://elen-nare.livejournal.com/11090.html

(Reply) (Thread)

magikcat112

2010-03-26 04:36 pm (UTC)

Rated PG-13 for mentions of violence, murder, drugs, etc. Language and spoiler warnings.

This is where thanfiction talked about Snape, his motivations during DAYD, and a secret about Terry Boot.
http://magikcat112.livejournal.com/56541.html?#cutid1

This is where [info]thanfiction talks a little bit about Remus Lupin, and tells the origin story about Fenrir Greyback.
http://magikcat112.livejournal.com/56541.html?#cutid2

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Information on the Malfoys

lyssa_adelia

2011-01-06 07:08 am (UTC)

Transcription of a conversation that took place in the Skype ROR on 2/17/2010. Edits have been made to condense the information into paragraphs, as opposed to sentences. Rated PG

http://lyssa-adelia.livejournal.com/114078.html

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