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Yeah, I don't understand this at all. Andy is a self-admitted rapist and animal killer. The only explanation I can come up with is the people sometimes forget these facts, or are unaware of them. I mean, I can understand finding Andy charming or charismatic (if you're an insecure person being lovebombed by him), but likeable, after knowing all the facts? That's beyond my ability to understand.
I'm kind of with you, anon.
It's good to be critical of the tumblr andy-sources. Necromommycon, for what it's worth, has actually walked back and apologized when she's realized that the language she has used regarding Andy has been inappropriate or too mellow, and has changed her tune.
But...you know, it's a fine line. It's not bad to criticize her if you feel that she's getting inappropriate in Designated Andy Watching Space, but at the same, don't be That Person that drives her away from Designated Andy Watching Space into Actual Andy Space.
It's good to be critical of the tumblr andy-sources. Necromommycon, for what it's worth, has actually walked back and apologized when she's realized that the language she has used regarding Andy has been inappropriate or too mellow, and has changed her tune.
But...you know, it's a fine line. It's not bad to criticize her if you feel that she's getting inappropriate in Designated Andy Watching Space, but at the same, don't be That Person that drives her away from Designated Andy Watching Space into Actual Andy Space.
Can we get an IP check here? My Andy-dar is going off.
Her stance on Andy just depresses the hell out of me tbh.
There is a post on KQ’s blog about this very issue. Sorry for not linking, but my iPad is not being cooperative this morning, and I need to leave in a few to take my dog to the vet. So far, the prevailing opinion seems to be that this thread was started by Andy. Mods?
DA
Here's KQ's post where she talks about it:
http://kumquatwriter.tumblr.com/post/176211794038/adorkablegrrl-returnofthenecromommycon-wayyy
Here's KQ's post where she talks about it:
http://kumquatwriter.tumblr.com/post/176211794038/adorkablegrrl-returnofthenecromommycon-wayyy
AYRT
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think that’s the folly of assuming that we are a community. Everyone has their own motivations, most of the conversations are in anon, some people are just gawking at the train wreck. Even other victims of Andy, I hesitate to reach out to, because we aren’t a community. We aren’t a court. We aren’t a support group. Just an Internet forum. I’m furious at Andy. I think he is a dangerous predator and he is backsliding/escalating. But not everyone has my experience with him, least of all neomommycon. This is rambly, but we don’t know each other. We don’t owe anything to screen names. I had a negative reaction to neomommycon’s post, but ultimately I shrugged. I think the asspatting on tumblr is ridiculous. I don’t think OP’s opinion is wrong, or even uncommon among some lurkers. It just doesn’t matter.
That was in July 2014, and it was about AgentSex wanting to get the scoop before Aja, and Andy wanting to get more attention and sympathy. At that point Aja had interviewed Abbey, a couple of ex-DAYDians, and other people from Andy's past, but had not yet interviewed Andy himself. He'd skated by for years on the assumption that the DAYDians and his more recent associates would be ashamed or afraid to come forward, and I don't think he had any intention of talking to Aja until she told him she'd already interviewed those other people.
While he and AgentSex were having a conversation via reblogs of one of his posts, Andy mentioned that he'd scheduled an interview with "a fairly major fandom human" in the name of laying all the controversy to rest. That would have been Aja. Andy also told AgentSex that she could ask him anything she wanted, privately or publicly. Behind the scenes, she got him to agree to a full-blown interview, which happened five days later. She posted the complete audio and a partial transcription about two weeks after that. Reactions to the first part of the interview (and to her ongoing harassment of Abbey and a number of Andy awareness bloggers) were so negative that she never published any further transcripts. I have no idea, nor do I care, whether she still has anything to do with Andy.
TB
While he and AgentSex were having a conversation via reblogs of one of his posts, Andy mentioned that he'd scheduled an interview with "a fairly major fandom human" in the name of laying all the controversy to rest. That would have been Aja. Andy also told AgentSex that she could ask him anything she wanted, privately or publicly. Behind the scenes, she got him to agree to a full-blown interview, which happened five days later. She posted the complete audio and a partial transcription about two weeks after that. Reactions to the first part of the interview (and to her ongoing harassment of Abbey and a number of Andy awareness bloggers) were so negative that she never published any further transcripts. I have no idea, nor do I care, whether she still has anything to do with Andy.
TB
But why did he start talking to a stranger? A stranger who if I recall mentioned that she had abusive family members? Was he playing her? Was it all a big joke to him? I try to understand how his mind works and just can't.
Try reading “why does he do that.” By Lundy Bancroft.
Gives insight into Andy’s behaviors and patterns
Gives insight into Andy’s behaviors and patterns
Agentsex was a stranger who approached Andy, showed a great deal of interest in learning about him, and didn't seem to be disturbed in any way when he was obviously lying to her. She also made it clear from the beginning that she gave very little weight to anything the AA bloggers (including Abbey) had to say.
Agentsex quickly became a willing mouthpiece and distraction, which was useful because Andy was under a fair amount of pressure at the time. When he did the interview with her, it was just under a month after the Finelookingcat fiasco. People were angry that he wanted to do GISHWHES again after he'd behaved so terribly toward his team the year before. The Teen Wolf fandom was making it clear that he wasn't welcome there, and he'd just posted a fauxpology to the DAYDverse LJ community, which he referred to as "burning down [his] own safe place". There was a lot going on, and by that time, Andy had figured out that the only people who were going to buy his excuses and justifications were already his friends. I think he hoped that others would find his version of events more plausible if it came from someone else.
There was also the fact that Andy has never liked confronting his detractors directly. He prefers to send inflammatory anon asks, or to have friends do it for him. Sometimes his friends defend him on their own blogs or in signed asks, but it's often evident that they are just parroting Andy's words. From the very beginning, Agentsex had no problem arguing (poorly) with the AA bloggers without direct input from Andy. She insulted people, victim-blamed them, concern-trolled, engaged in abuse apologism, and called anon bloggers chickenshits and cowards when we wouldn't disclose our identities. She behaved in ways that Andy would never risk doing himself because he tries to maintain a reputation as a tragically misunderstood genius-artist-bishounen (now a sage/fandom dad and a polymath) who cares deeply about social justice and has never been threatening in any way. He was careful not to openly endorse anything that Agentsex said, and he didn't pay much attention to her after the interview, at least not publicly. She persisted in defending him for more than another year, to the point that my tag for her is "the stannest of stans".
In summary, Agentsex was useful to Andy for a while, and I think it was entertaining for him to see someone else get stressed out and exhausted by fighting on his behalf. Yes, he was playing her, and it was at least partly a joke to him.
TB
Agentsex quickly became a willing mouthpiece and distraction, which was useful because Andy was under a fair amount of pressure at the time. When he did the interview with her, it was just under a month after the Finelookingcat fiasco. People were angry that he wanted to do GISHWHES again after he'd behaved so terribly toward his team the year before. The Teen Wolf fandom was making it clear that he wasn't welcome there, and he'd just posted a fauxpology to the DAYDverse LJ community, which he referred to as "burning down [his] own safe place". There was a lot going on, and by that time, Andy had figured out that the only people who were going to buy his excuses and justifications were already his friends. I think he hoped that others would find his version of events more plausible if it came from someone else.
There was also the fact that Andy has never liked confronting his detractors directly. He prefers to send inflammatory anon asks, or to have friends do it for him. Sometimes his friends defend him on their own blogs or in signed asks, but it's often evident that they are just parroting Andy's words. From the very beginning, Agentsex had no problem arguing (poorly) with the AA bloggers without direct input from Andy. She insulted people, victim-blamed them, concern-trolled, engaged in abuse apologism, and called anon bloggers chickenshits and cowards when we wouldn't disclose our identities. She behaved in ways that Andy would never risk doing himself because he tries to maintain a reputation as a tragically misunderstood genius-artist-bishounen (now a sage/fandom dad and a polymath) who cares deeply about social justice and has never been threatening in any way. He was careful not to openly endorse anything that Agentsex said, and he didn't pay much attention to her after the interview, at least not publicly. She persisted in defending him for more than another year, to the point that my tag for her is "the stannest of stans".
In summary, Agentsex was useful to Andy for a while, and I think it was entertaining for him to see someone else get stressed out and exhausted by fighting on his behalf. Yes, he was playing her, and it was at least partly a joke to him.
TB
You think being the victim of a shooting spree would make Andy think: life is short, need to change. But no. Did he have PTSD from that? Has he mentioned poor Brittany recently?
I have to admit I wonder if Andy ever actually planned for LA to end well. To be clear, I don't think he meant it to end this quickly and with so many embarrassing details, but did he ever really...not just expect, but WANT...it to be a success?
Maybe it's just my cynicism, but it looks so precariously planned (a place to stay for as long as he could blag the host, a job when and if, and, if I recall correctly, a degree he still has to finish his last big project for). I know Andy has a history of bad planning, but the fall out is mostly on others. He's usually already got his bolt hole planted, once he's taken his martyr's circuit.
I just think that Andy is someone who's lived his whole life on the basis of his potential. The TRAGEDY of his potential, even. That he was so bright and talented and could do so MUCH, if only he wasn't...whatever. Now, with the degree course and his flat with Meg, he's faced with a: not being the broken boy anymore, just a man with a dirty flat and b: a career where no-one cares about how good he COULD be, just what he can actually do.
And even though he has talent, or so I assume since he's passing his course up till now*?, I could see him self-sabotaging all that. He has already set it up as 'LA is the only place I could every work' with his friends, and now he can sigh and flop and point out LA is tainted and closed to him forever and it's not HIS FAULT, it's those darn kids (Andy Awareness blogs).
* I have no idea how Andy's degree is scheduled, but it seems a self-sabotagey move to abandon the last element of your degree over the summer to go to LA on a lick and a half-hearted promise. I could be completely wrong about that.
Maybe it's just my cynicism, but it looks so precariously planned (a place to stay for as long as he could blag the host, a job when and if, and, if I recall correctly, a degree he still has to finish his last big project for). I know Andy has a history of bad planning, but the fall out is mostly on others. He's usually already got his bolt hole planted, once he's taken his martyr's circuit.
I just think that Andy is someone who's lived his whole life on the basis of his potential. The TRAGEDY of his potential, even. That he was so bright and talented and could do so MUCH, if only he wasn't...whatever. Now, with the degree course and his flat with Meg, he's faced with a: not being the broken boy anymore, just a man with a dirty flat and b: a career where no-one cares about how good he COULD be, just what he can actually do.
And even though he has talent, or so I assume since he's passing his course up till now*?, I could see him self-sabotaging all that. He has already set it up as 'LA is the only place I could every work' with his friends, and now he can sigh and flop and point out LA is tainted and closed to him forever and it's not HIS FAULT, it's those darn kids (Andy Awareness blogs).
* I have no idea how Andy's degree is scheduled, but it seems a self-sabotagey move to abandon the last element of your degree over the summer to go to LA on a lick and a half-hearted promise. I could be completely wrong about that.
I am honestly OK if he never mentions Brittany again.
Every time he does it is to make himself look better or more damaged depending on how he wants to play with everyone's emotions.
It has never been about Brittany who was a living breathing real person rather than the prop she has become for him to help his 'cause'.
As to the claim of PTSD, yes and no based on his writings after she died. He has it when convenient and again serves his narrative as the poor put upon victim against these meanies who are trying to ruin his life.
Every time he does it is to make himself look better or more damaged depending on how he wants to play with everyone's emotions.
It has never been about Brittany who was a living breathing real person rather than the prop she has become for him to help his 'cause'.
As to the claim of PTSD, yes and no based on his writings after she died. He has it when convenient and again serves his narrative as the poor put upon victim against these meanies who are trying to ruin his life.
NA
This, at least as it's phrased here, is a really shitty myth that needs to go away.
The reason that trans men end up looking much older after they go on testosterone isn't because testosterone ages them prematurely but because it makes them look like other men their age. Pre-T and in the early stages of T, trans men who pass tend to be read as much younger than they actually are because they don't have the physical markers of male puberty that people expect from adult men. Once they've been on testosterone for some time, they start to "catch up" to what people expect men of their actual age to look like. It doesn't make them look way older than cis men of the same age. HRT for trans men isn't some weird mystery aging compound. It's the same stuff cis guys have, aiming for the same levels as cis guys have. Any aging effect it has applies equally to cis men with normal testosterone levels. I mean, this is all averages, there are always opposite ends on a bell curve, but overall that's how it works.
There's this thing I keep seeing where people spread incorrect information about what transition for trans men involves and all of the ~horrible, no good, very bad~ things it will do to your body, and this is one of the things that keeps coming up. It's bullshit because it's a total misrepresentation of what's actually involved physically, and it's bullshit because it draws on misogynistic fearmongering about how looking old will ruin a "woman"'s life in order to try to scare people out of transitioning. And then it gets passed around by people who don't know any better and people treat it as gospel truth.
Andy looks older than he is because he smokes and drinks and that's what has an aging effect, not the testosterone.
This, at least as it's phrased here, is a really shitty myth that needs to go away.
The reason that trans men end up looking much older after they go on testosterone isn't because testosterone ages them prematurely but because it makes them look like other men their age. Pre-T and in the early stages of T, trans men who pass tend to be read as much younger than they actually are because they don't have the physical markers of male puberty that people expect from adult men. Once they've been on testosterone for some time, they start to "catch up" to what people expect men of their actual age to look like. It doesn't make them look way older than cis men of the same age. HRT for trans men isn't some weird mystery aging compound. It's the same stuff cis guys have, aiming for the same levels as cis guys have. Any aging effect it has applies equally to cis men with normal testosterone levels. I mean, this is all averages, there are always opposite ends on a bell curve, but overall that's how it works.
There's this thing I keep seeing where people spread incorrect information about what transition for trans men involves and all of the ~horrible, no good, very bad~ things it will do to your body, and this is one of the things that keeps coming up. It's bullshit because it's a total misrepresentation of what's actually involved physically, and it's bullshit because it draws on misogynistic fearmongering about how looking old will ruin a "woman"'s life in order to try to scare people out of transitioning. And then it gets passed around by people who don't know any better and people treat it as gospel truth.
Andy looks older than he is because he smokes and drinks and that's what has an aging effect, not the testosterone.
You're reading way too much into this comment. They only said t has an aging effect - which it does - not that it ages trans men prematurely or that it ages trans men differently (appearance-wise) than it does cis men.
Screening this for now as the likely author of these comments has come forward. Despite the fact that Andy has used these comments to manipulate members of his circle, it thankfully appears unlikely at this point that that was the OP's deliberate intent.
@OP, please be aware that while you are not banned from posting here right now, I'm going to be fast to lock future inflammatory comments from your IP.
@OP, please be aware that while you are not banned from posting here right now, I'm going to be fast to lock future inflammatory comments from your IP.
Personally, I've known folks who AREN'T Andy who abandoned their degree with the last class or semester. I'm kinda perplexed as to why folks WOULDN'T assume Andy has done the same thing, by this point. The sole purpose of his stupid school thing was to pull a new start; now that plot twist has passed, I presume he's going back to business as usual.
This is not a guy who's known for his staying power.
This is not a guy who's known for his staying power.
Can someone explain what happened here?
Da It's related to the necromommycon thread and the fallout with Andy reaching out to necromommycon directly about it. The mods here looked through the history of the IP who posted it and thought it was Andy or a posse member posting, so they froze that thread and posted a whole list of every comment that IP address had made here for transparency to the community.
That nonny had also apparently written the comments to Molly asking for screencaps of her texts about Andy and had claimed to be the tumblr anon going after ravenjeep and a lot of their other comments here were name calling and about how Andy's friends are culpable too, basically the kind of stuff someone trying to stir up anti-tftalk sentiments would seed here.
I guess the poster must have proven their identity for anonymod to screen the list of links.
That nonny had also apparently written the comments to Molly asking for screencaps of her texts about Andy and had claimed to be the tumblr anon going after ravenjeep and a lot of their other comments here were name calling and about how Andy's friends are culpable too, basically the kind of stuff someone trying to stir up anti-tftalk sentiments would seed here.
I guess the poster must have proven their identity for anonymod to screen the list of links.
If you say that T is the reason for Andy looking older than he is then that inherently is saying that T is aging him prematurely compared to other men (presumably cis.). It's ridiculous to say that Andy having aged poorly is all or even primarily to do with being on testosterone when what's being talked about is that he has aged poorly for a man. His appearance is that of a man who is older than Andy actually is. Blaming testosterone for that is nonsensical because the vast majority of the men his age who do look their actual age would have similar testosterone levels too. Like... there is no way to say "This guy looks older than his age because T often has an aging effect" that doesn't imply that him being on T has aged him differently than other men age, because it first requires using other men as an average by which to judge what any age "looks like" on a man.
"If you say that T is the reason for Andy looking older than he is then that inherently is saying that T is aging him prematurely compared to other men (presumably cis.)."
No, it's not that simple. Andy's smoked for years, but before t he always looked younger than cis men his age. The reason for that is he never developed any secondary male sexual characteristics. This off-set any effect the smoking might have had on his appearance in regard to his age.
Adding t to the mix eliminated the "hasn't gone through male puberty yet" look. When you combine that with all the unhealthy shit he does, the result is what we see today - a guy who looks older than his actual age.
Put another way: If he'd never gone on t, Andy would almost certainly still look much younger than he is, DESPITE his smoking and drinking. The smoking/drinking remains constant; t is the factor that varies. Ergo, t is variable responsible for the recent striking change in his appearance.
In mathematical terms:
No T:
(No t = -10 to -13 years) + (smoking = +5 years) + Andy's actual age = -5 to -8 years off Andy's actual age
With T:
(t = 0, no difference from a cis man) + (smoking = +5) + Andy's actual age = +5 years to Andy's actual age
No, it's not that simple. Andy's smoked for years, but before t he always looked younger than cis men his age. The reason for that is he never developed any secondary male sexual characteristics. This off-set any effect the smoking might have had on his appearance in regard to his age.
Adding t to the mix eliminated the "hasn't gone through male puberty yet" look. When you combine that with all the unhealthy shit he does, the result is what we see today - a guy who looks older than his actual age.
Put another way: If he'd never gone on t, Andy would almost certainly still look much younger than he is, DESPITE his smoking and drinking. The smoking/drinking remains constant; t is the factor that varies. Ergo, t is variable responsible for the recent striking change in his appearance.
In mathematical terms:
No T:
(No t = -10 to -13 years) + (smoking = +5 years) + Andy's actual age = -5 to -8 years off Andy's actual age
With T:
(t = 0, no difference from a cis man) + (smoking = +5) + Andy's actual age = +5 years to Andy's actual age
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