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Army Dude is Winjennster's ex-husband.
Some people in the notes of TB's post brought that up: http://theteablogger.tumblr.com/post/175246888792/bemusedlybespectacled-arse-moriendi
Worth reading the article linked in there, it's dead-on accurate wrt what Andy is doing.
Worth reading the article linked in there, it's dead-on accurate wrt what Andy is doing.
This fucking group, though. The guy seriously does not know how to help himself.
AYRT That... makes a lot of sense. In other words, it's not really a delusion on his part. He puts out just enough effort to seem like the real thing and leans on his mouth to carry the rest for him. Minimal effort, maximum reward.
I feel incredibly sorry for Winnjennister.
What the fuck? Here's one of Andy's friends blatantly lying and then standing by the lie (a lie that if it were true could cause grave legal trouble) because reasons:
NL: ...From all accounts (including her own) Andy’s misadventures with his ex, Abbey, seem at least as much her responsibility as his, if anything, because she was an adult at the time and he was a minor.
Abbey:: He absolutely was not a minor. He was 18 when we met online and 19 when we met in person. These are documented facts. It is a baldfaced proven lie that he was a minor.
...Several people, including Andy's defenders, acknowledge that, no, Andy was not a minor at the time and that yes, NL wrote that he was..
NL: I’m not going to change my statement. He may not have been a minor (the cut off on that changes from place to place), but he was a teenager. And Abbey (nice to meet you) you were not, correct? You were an adult by every legal definition.
NL: ...From all accounts (including her own) Andy’s misadventures with his ex, Abbey, seem at least as much her responsibility as his, if anything, because she was an adult at the time and he was a minor.
Abbey:: He absolutely was not a minor. He was 18 when we met online and 19 when we met in person. These are documented facts. It is a baldfaced proven lie that he was a minor.
...Several people, including Andy's defenders, acknowledge that, no, Andy was not a minor at the time and that yes, NL wrote that he was..
NL: I’m not going to change my statement. He may not have been a minor (the cut off on that changes from place to place), but he was a teenager. And Abbey (nice to meet you) you were not, correct? You were an adult by every legal definition.
[name redacted] I’m not going to change my statement.
He may not have been a minor (the cut off on that changes from place to place), but he was a teenager. And Abbey (nice to meet you) you were not, correct? You were an adult by every legal definition.
And you met this kid online, and you believed him when he told you that he was speaking to elves?
So... how did he wield such power over you, that you were the sole victim and he the sole abuser, there?
I’m not denying Andy was behaving in a manner that was clearly toxic to himself and everyone around him. He’s not denying that, either.
But why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you say, “Honey, elves aren’t real and you can’t talk to Dead movie stars”?
Why would you put your trust in someone who told you they are and he could? Especially a teenager?? I mean... the baseline of teenagers is “batshit crazy” to begin with.
Yeah, Andy was a walking disaster area. But, by all accounts, you contributed to that. And yet all I see is you and Molly and “tea blogger” putting all the blame on a mentally ill teenager who, instead of getting the help and boundaries and support he needed, was enabled and encouraged by you. And then handed the sole blame for the fallout.
It seems to me that the main reason Andy has been cast as the villain in all this is that you got your story out first. And he’s bought into it, too. He thinks it was all his fault, too.
But I think you are a lot more responsible than you’re acknowledging, and I think this whole thing has gone on too long, and has been built on shadows of shadows of itself.
Molly has reported Andy doing nothing more than making her feel uncomfortable and not cleaning up after himself. Which makes him a crappy houseguest, but does not make him a sociopath. But because you guys have built an entire subculture around vilifying him, suddenly everything he does is ramped up to “dangerous”. And anyone who likes him or defends him has been “brainwashed”.
Which is kind of insulting, btw. Just because you chose to follow his mentally ill fantasy paths doesn’t mean I would. Or Chris would. Or Meg would. Most adults know the difference between reality and fantasy.
Andy hasn’t brainwashed me. I don’t even know him. But he told me his story. And I read the accounts from news articles and from the teablogger’s blog. And they all draw a pretty strange picture.
Mostly what I see is a bunch of fandom geeks (and, Hey, I’m one, too) getting waaaay too wrapped up in their fandoms, and deciding it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up. And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.
And maybe he did lead the way. But you chose to follow him. And you were the adult. And he was the kid.
Now he’s trying to rebuild his life, in a world where people don’t believe in elves. He’s not telling anyone he has super powers. He’s not telling anyone he can communicate with other dimensions. He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!). He’s just trying to get a job and live his life.
Leave him alone to do it, please.
He may not have been a minor (the cut off on that changes from place to place), but he was a teenager. And Abbey (nice to meet you) you were not, correct? You were an adult by every legal definition.
And you met this kid online, and you believed him when he told you that he was speaking to elves?
So... how did he wield such power over you, that you were the sole victim and he the sole abuser, there?
I’m not denying Andy was behaving in a manner that was clearly toxic to himself and everyone around him. He’s not denying that, either.
But why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you say, “Honey, elves aren’t real and you can’t talk to Dead movie stars”?
Why would you put your trust in someone who told you they are and he could? Especially a teenager?? I mean... the baseline of teenagers is “batshit crazy” to begin with.
Yeah, Andy was a walking disaster area. But, by all accounts, you contributed to that. And yet all I see is you and Molly and “tea blogger” putting all the blame on a mentally ill teenager who, instead of getting the help and boundaries and support he needed, was enabled and encouraged by you. And then handed the sole blame for the fallout.
It seems to me that the main reason Andy has been cast as the villain in all this is that you got your story out first. And he’s bought into it, too. He thinks it was all his fault, too.
But I think you are a lot more responsible than you’re acknowledging, and I think this whole thing has gone on too long, and has been built on shadows of shadows of itself.
Molly has reported Andy doing nothing more than making her feel uncomfortable and not cleaning up after himself. Which makes him a crappy houseguest, but does not make him a sociopath. But because you guys have built an entire subculture around vilifying him, suddenly everything he does is ramped up to “dangerous”. And anyone who likes him or defends him has been “brainwashed”.
Which is kind of insulting, btw. Just because you chose to follow his mentally ill fantasy paths doesn’t mean I would. Or Chris would. Or Meg would. Most adults know the difference between reality and fantasy.
Andy hasn’t brainwashed me. I don’t even know him. But he told me his story. And I read the accounts from news articles and from the teablogger’s blog. And they all draw a pretty strange picture.
Mostly what I see is a bunch of fandom geeks (and, Hey, I’m one, too) getting waaaay too wrapped up in their fandoms, and deciding it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up. And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.
And maybe he did lead the way. But you chose to follow him. And you were the adult. And he was the kid.
Now he’s trying to rebuild his life, in a world where people don’t believe in elves. He’s not telling anyone he has super powers. He’s not telling anyone he can communicate with other dimensions. He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!). He’s just trying to get a job and live his life.
Leave him alone to do it, please.
That entire response is so rage inducing I'm shaking. Completely cruel and completely lacking in any kind of empathy. Abbey, if you're reading this, I'm so fucking sorry that people continue to behave like this about the experiences you've been brave enough to share.
And from the same person:
Just because you chose to follow his mentally ill fantasy paths doesn’t mean I would. Or Chris would. Or Meg would. Most adults know the difference between reality and fantasy. Andy hasn’t brainwashed me. I don’t even know him. But he told me his story. And I read the accounts from news articles and from the teablogger’s blog. And they all draw a pretty strange picture. Mostly what I see is a bunch of fandom geeks (and, Hey, I’m one, too) getting waaaay too wrapped up in their fandoms, and deciding it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up. And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.
Hmm... Has anyone ever heard of a person who got waaaay to wrapped up in his fandom and decided it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up? Anyone? Ring a bell? Anyone? Bueller?
Just because you chose to follow his mentally ill fantasy paths doesn’t mean I would. Or Chris would. Or Meg would. Most adults know the difference between reality and fantasy. Andy hasn’t brainwashed me. I don’t even know him. But he told me his story. And I read the accounts from news articles and from the teablogger’s blog. And they all draw a pretty strange picture. Mostly what I see is a bunch of fandom geeks (and, Hey, I’m one, too) getting waaaay too wrapped up in their fandoms, and deciding it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up. And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.
Hmm... Has anyone ever heard of a person who got waaaay to wrapped up in his fandom and decided it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up? Anyone? Ring a bell? Anyone? Bueller?
Christ, what an asshole.
It's not like Abbey was a 40 year old woman with a ton of experience under her belt. Or even 30+ years old. She was in her early to mid 20s, as I recall. They act like she should have known better, and don't take into account her own mental state at the time. And how easy it was for a con artist like Andy to slide in and take over.
And the mental illness bullshit again. Mental illness does not an abuser make.
And the mental illness bullshit again. Mental illness does not an abuser make.
Nah, I'm cool. Gets an occasional rise out of me, but that's about it. I'm amazed at how hard his group is working to make him - and themselves - look like even bigger assholes.
Thanks though - the support is always appreciated! -KQ
Thanks though - the support is always appreciated! -KQ
And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.
What. An. Asshole.
What. An. Asshole.
It reminds me of a term people use in support communities for folks with estranged/difficult parents like r/JUSTNOMIL and r/raisedbynarcissists - "Missing Missing Reasons"
This article digs into it in depth: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Essentially the idea is that these abusive parents will hold 2 beliefs simultaneously: That their kids hold on to a laundry list of petty grievances that they'll fling in their parents' faces in long diatribes, pages-long letters, rants, etc...while they also will argue that they have no idea why their child has limited contact, and how blindsided they are by everything and if they don't even know what they DID how can they RESPOND or MOVE FORWARD????
This article digs into it in depth: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Essentially the idea is that these abusive parents will hold 2 beliefs simultaneously: That their kids hold on to a laundry list of petty grievances that they'll fling in their parents' faces in long diatribes, pages-long letters, rants, etc...while they also will argue that they have no idea why their child has limited contact, and how blindsided they are by everything and if they don't even know what they DID how can they RESPOND or MOVE FORWARD????
Total tangent here but do tell where that is. I remember the FF7 House with a shudder.
I know others will dismantle the victim blaming and targeted harassment of KQ, but I have to call out this blatant lie in particular: Molly has reported Andy doing nothing more than making her feel uncomfortable and not cleaning up after himself.
In that thread alone many people report that:
• Andy exhibited abusive behavior toward many people, trans and fat folks especially.
• Andy lied to Molly about his background (summing it up as "internet drama" from his teen years)
• Andy lied to Molly's friends about whether he'd lived in LA before
• Andy lied to Molly and her friends about his purpose for being in LA (claimed he'd moved for a job that he did not have)
• Andy manipulated Molly into letting him remain in her home weeks longer than agreed (and was telling other people that he planned to stay out the season if not the year, so he was laying the groundwork for that week-long stay to turn into months)
So...boiling all of that down into "she felt uncomfortable and he didn't clean up after himself" is incredibly disingenuous. Wow.
In that thread alone many people report that:
• Andy exhibited abusive behavior toward many people, trans and fat folks especially.
• Andy lied to Molly about his background (summing it up as "internet drama" from his teen years)
• Andy lied to Molly's friends about whether he'd lived in LA before
• Andy lied to Molly and her friends about his purpose for being in LA (claimed he'd moved for a job that he did not have)
• Andy manipulated Molly into letting him remain in her home weeks longer than agreed (and was telling other people that he planned to stay out the season if not the year, so he was laying the groundwork for that week-long stay to turn into months)
So...boiling all of that down into "she felt uncomfortable and he didn't clean up after himself" is incredibly disingenuous. Wow.
Yes, at this point: if you had no other reason to want to avoid Andy, looking at the group of assholes defending him would do the trick.
Not only does this guy ignore plainly stated facts that Abbey has put forward (how it was never "I talk to elves" but more leading you to "guess" that he talks to elves, for example), but he was not a kid. He was nineteen. He was also "an adult by every legal definition."
Since he was 19 in 2002 when Abbey first met him in person (per Teablogger's timeline), that means he was 24 when he pulled the "going to Canada" thing in 2007. He was certainly not a child then.
He was 27 in 2010 when he channeled in front of Brittany. By no stretch of the imagination can he claim that Brittany was "enabling a mentally ill teenager" given that he was almost 30.
"He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!)."
I know facts aren't this guy's strong suit, but we literally JUST HAD Andy trying to throw a big Critical Role-themed gourmet feast despite claiming not knowing how to boil an egg.
Since he was 19 in 2002 when Abbey first met him in person (per Teablogger's timeline), that means he was 24 when he pulled the "going to Canada" thing in 2007. He was certainly not a child then.
He was 27 in 2010 when he channeled in front of Brittany. By no stretch of the imagination can he claim that Brittany was "enabling a mentally ill teenager" given that he was almost 30.
"He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!)."
I know facts aren't this guy's strong suit, but we literally JUST HAD Andy trying to throw a big Critical Role-themed gourmet feast despite claiming not knowing how to boil an egg.
Abbey, I’m sorry for all you went through. Truly. And I’m not asking you, or Molly, or anybody, to like Andrew, or be his friend, or anything at all. Just leave him alone. That’s it. If we’re right and he has changed, that will bear out. If you’re right and he hasn’t, that will come to light eventually as well. We’re not joining a hobbit cult. We’re not sending him thousands of dollars. I can’t speak for anyone but myself (but I imagine his other friends feel similarly) when I say that all I want is for him to get a fair chance to be a better person.
So just....stop. Stop talking shit about him in public forums. Stop trying to ruin his job prospects. You don’t ever need to engage with him ever again, in any way.
Look, I’ve been through some super traumatic shit. I understand the desire to stay in that place and try to “fix it” or give payback or punish the person you think is responsible. I stayed in that place for a really long time, and it fucked me up really badly. I honestly hope you find a way to heal from all this and move forward.
But try to remember that Andy wasn’t and isn’t a monster. He was a fucked up kid. And he’s been open and honest about what that meant and how he’s trying to get better and move forward. No, he can’t ever undo what happened in the past. But I sure would hate for my whole life to be only about the worst thing I ever did. Wouldn’t you?
Those last two sentences are a direct quote from Andy, no? I'm pretty sure I've read them before.
So is "fucked up kid."
And the suggestion that Abbey/anyone talking about Andy is doing so to "punish" him is pretty much exactly what he said in his last self-pitying Facebook posts.
So just....stop. Stop talking shit about him in public forums. Stop trying to ruin his job prospects. You don’t ever need to engage with him ever again, in any way.
Look, I’ve been through some super traumatic shit. I understand the desire to stay in that place and try to “fix it” or give payback or punish the person you think is responsible. I stayed in that place for a really long time, and it fucked me up really badly. I honestly hope you find a way to heal from all this and move forward.
But try to remember that Andy wasn’t and isn’t a monster. He was a fucked up kid. And he’s been open and honest about what that meant and how he’s trying to get better and move forward. No, he can’t ever undo what happened in the past. But I sure would hate for my whole life to be only about the worst thing I ever did. Wouldn’t you?
Those last two sentences are a direct quote from Andy, no? I'm pretty sure I've read them before.
So is "fucked up kid."
And the suggestion that Abbey/anyone talking about Andy is doing so to "punish" him is pretty much exactly what he said in his last self-pitying Facebook posts.
"Abbey, I’m sorry for all you went through. Truly."
Oh, what disengenuous bullshit. If he cared, he wouldn't have said that it was her fault and she invited it by falling for him. What an asshole.
Oh, what disengenuous bullshit. If he cared, he wouldn't have said that it was her fault and she invited it by falling for him. What an asshole.
Why does Andy get the chance to be a "fucked up kid" in his mid-to-late 20s when Abbey does not?? I know this guy has so much cognitive dissonance going on that he probably hasn't even noticed this double standard, but he's gone from insinuating that Abbey is a predator and a willful dupe for being attracted to a 19yo at 23(ish - I don't remember Abbey's exact age in 2002 but I know that's the high estimate so let's use that)...to asserting that Andy is a "fucked up kid" who can't be held accountable for his actions as a what, 24yo? A 28yo circa the "It's About Power" wilderness march stuff?
I'm 29. I'm not a kid, I'm an adult with enough years into a career to have "senior" in front of my job title. I can't imagine calling someone in their mid 20s a "kid" and assuming they shouldn't be held accountable for actions as serious as Andy's in the mid-late 2000s.
I'm 29. I'm not a kid, I'm an adult with enough years into a career to have "senior" in front of my job title. I can't imagine calling someone in their mid 20s a "kid" and assuming they shouldn't be held accountable for actions as serious as Andy's in the mid-late 2000s.
Look, nonny, the Molly situation was more than a week ago, everyone should be over it by now. And if he hasn't changed it will "come to light eventually." By divine fiat, I assume, since personal accounts from people who've recently interacted with him at some length don't qualify.
He is NOT a fucked up kid. He's an abusive, narcissistic asshole. And his victims are not obligated to 'leave him alone'.
And he was a monster to a lot of people. You don't get to ask for someone to be left alone after they've abused that many people. Even one abused person is enough but he has dozens of victims left in his wake.
And he was a monster to a lot of people. You don't get to ask for someone to be left alone after they've abused that many people. Even one abused person is enough but he has dozens of victims left in his wake.
It has "come to light". This is at least the fifth time it has come to light
How many "fair chances" does Andy get before any of his friends will stop excusing every shitty, abusive thing he does? And why does he get a free pass to ~make mistakes~ etc in his mid-thirties, but Abbey doesn't get one for things that happened in her early twenties--for which she's actually apologized and taken full responsibility?
How many "fair chances" does Andy get before any of his friends will stop excusing every shitty, abusive thing he does? And why does he get a free pass to ~make mistakes~ etc in his mid-thirties, but Abbey doesn't get one for things that happened in her early twenties--for which she's actually apologized and taken full responsibility?
It actually says a lot he doesn't seem to realize. He wants people to see him as a macho scary guy, and Andy figured that out and played on it. "I'm trans and mentally ill and vulnerable and scared of you...will you help me?" Not his favorite persona, but it seems to have worked in this case.
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