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Just seeing this now, and I just posted almost exactly the same thing above (apologies for that!), but THIS. Connecting that to the little POV sketch about manipulating people online is really insightful-- it's exactly the same!
I have the same feeling as I do when politicians publicly tell bald faced lies and expects everyone to believe them because THEY SAY SO. How does anyone believe their gaslighting?
Hell, I'm 24, almost 25 (roughly the age Andy was when he started writing DAYD). In many ways I don't consider myself a "real" adult in that I've never had a long-term, full-time job and don't live independently of my parents yet, but that's completely unrelated to my actual, physical age or emotional maturity. No one in their right mind would ever call me a "kid" because I'm 24.
And the worst thing I've ever done as a young 20-something was fail my classes during a mental breakdown, not rape and abuse people.
And the worst thing I've ever done as a young 20-something was fail my classes during a mental breakdown, not rape and abuse people.
When I was 18 I believed an anime dog demon was my true love and we were meant to be together. The adults who loved me found out and got me help.They did not tell me I was special and then help me fake my death. They did not smuggle me across the country and use me as the figurehead of a cult. They sure as hell didn't place the actions of an adult on my childish behavior. Y'all relationship was toxic but it was mutually toxic. Take some responsibility, get some therapy, and live your life.
I suppose it's pointless to tell this person that Abbey has had therapy, assumed full responsibility for her own actions, and has a wonderful life?
These people are vile. Also, this is literally the first time I've ever seen the phrase "use me as the figurehead of a cult," as though cult LEADERS are the real victims, forced into their role by their followers. Amazing.
I suppose it's pointless to tell this person that Abbey has had therapy, assumed full responsibility for her own actions, and has a wonderful life?
These people are vile. Also, this is literally the first time I've ever seen the phrase "use me as the figurehead of a cult," as though cult LEADERS are the real victims, forced into their role by their followers. Amazing.
The problem with this excuse of mental illness is that most mental illnesses do not make you an abuser if you aren't already like that at the core.
I have no doubt Andy has a mental illness. KQ herself said what it was, even. ASPD with narcissism in the mix. He doesn't like admitting these diagnoses because everyone knows ASPD and NPD are commonly vilified and rightly so as much damage as they can cause to innocent third parties. They're difficult to treat and require a lot of effort on the part of the person with the disorder.
Andy doesn't /want/ to work on any of it. He's lazy. He doesn't believe he's done anything wrong and petulant that anyone is continuing to hold his feet to the fire. He wants his victims to just go away already so he can move on with his life and find a new fandom to target.
I have no doubt Andy has a mental illness. KQ herself said what it was, even. ASPD with narcissism in the mix. He doesn't like admitting these diagnoses because everyone knows ASPD and NPD are commonly vilified and rightly so as much damage as they can cause to innocent third parties. They're difficult to treat and require a lot of effort on the part of the person with the disorder.
Andy doesn't /want/ to work on any of it. He's lazy. He doesn't believe he's done anything wrong and petulant that anyone is continuing to hold his feet to the fire. He wants his victims to just go away already so he can move on with his life and find a new fandom to target.
NAYRT
FUN!:
https://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17745
FUN!:
https://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17745
It's a little redundant, but I kind of want to make a point-by-point list of the obfuscation happening.
The Andy narrative:
1) Andy has changed! In the last four years he's done a lot of work on himself, and all his friends agree he's a much better person now. He has a job lined up in LA, and drives across the country to work there for the summer. While he's there, he rents from his friend Molly and her fiancee
2) EVERYTHING IS RUINED! The AA blogs contacted Molly, and she immediately kicked him out and got him fired from his job. The AA blogs are contacting people in LA and spreading lies about him, making it so he can't advance in the industry.
Except, it follows that what actually happened was that he had some part time work lined up as a verbal agreement (no full time job), and was only supposed to crash with Molly (kind acquaintance) for a week. If he told people he had a full time job or actual housing worked out, he was lying to them.
He was a rude houseguest, and creeped out Molly and her friends. He was hurtful to her friends, and displayed many red-flags.
He wanted to live with Molly rent-free, all summer, despite never asking for this directly. She had agreed to let him crash for a week in exchange for a commission (but mostly as a favor).
He straight up lied to many people, repeatedly, constantly. Things that were blatant, like "I have never lived in LA before."
While he was in LA, he made multiple attempts to get Molly to help him connect with celebrities (specifically the Critical Role cast).
A friend of Molly's sent her a few links, she did some research. It all lined up with what she knew of him, she asked him to leave.
People who had recently met him mostly didn't like him, and now that they knew about his past (from google!) they weren't interested in continuing their acquaintance. This is partly because of stuff he's done in the past, and partly because he's been shitty to people they know in their social circle. Molly hasn't ordered anyone to cut of contact with him or anything- there is no 'him vs her' in this case-- Molly is their friend of many years. They barely know Andy, and for the most part, what they know of him they don't like. Not a single person who has met him in LA *wants* to be friends with him anymore, and there isn't a reason in the world they should give a near-stranger with a shady past who was an ass to their friend some kind of chance.
One of the people in this social circle forwarded the relevant info to Andy's part time, informal employer (another friend, since mostly Andy seems to be relying on social networking), who decided she'd prefer to not work with him in the future.
Since Andy didn't *actually have a job*, its hard to describe this as being fired. Since most of these people were acquaintances he knew from Molly, it's hard to see how her talking about this with her friends constitutes 'ruining his life and career'. A social network is not a career.
Molly has since contacted the AA blogs, which connects this to the general Andy timeline.
Andy's friends are ACTIVELY perpetuating the narrative of the first two facts, blaming this on the AA blogs. The volume of the obfuscation is incredible. Apart from providing an easily found record of events over the last 25 years, the blogs were completely un-involved! How can anyone blame these events on the AA community, and say that it's destroying his life and preventing him from making a fresh start? They talk a lot about what we want from Andy, to prove he's changed-- but what exactly do they want from us??? Do they want the teablogger to just...delete their blog? Do they want the fanlore thanfiction information to vanish? Should Molly's friends be rolling out the red carpet and purchasing commissions from someone they owe nothing too? Is that what the 'benefit of the doubt' entails???
If his friends in VA care about him at all, and he was honest with them about his plans, how can they have agreed that it was a good idea for him to move across the country without a job or a rental agreement? I suspect that he didn't tell them that, and that he straight up lied to them about his arrangements for the summer. He's certainly lying to them now. That's something they should think about.
The Andy narrative:
1) Andy has changed! In the last four years he's done a lot of work on himself, and all his friends agree he's a much better person now. He has a job lined up in LA, and drives across the country to work there for the summer. While he's there, he rents from his friend Molly and her fiancee
2) EVERYTHING IS RUINED! The AA blogs contacted Molly, and she immediately kicked him out and got him fired from his job. The AA blogs are contacting people in LA and spreading lies about him, making it so he can't advance in the industry.
Except, it follows that what actually happened was that he had some part time work lined up as a verbal agreement (no full time job), and was only supposed to crash with Molly (kind acquaintance) for a week. If he told people he had a full time job or actual housing worked out, he was lying to them.
He was a rude houseguest, and creeped out Molly and her friends. He was hurtful to her friends, and displayed many red-flags.
He wanted to live with Molly rent-free, all summer, despite never asking for this directly. She had agreed to let him crash for a week in exchange for a commission (but mostly as a favor).
He straight up lied to many people, repeatedly, constantly. Things that were blatant, like "I have never lived in LA before."
While he was in LA, he made multiple attempts to get Molly to help him connect with celebrities (specifically the Critical Role cast).
A friend of Molly's sent her a few links, she did some research. It all lined up with what she knew of him, she asked him to leave.
People who had recently met him mostly didn't like him, and now that they knew about his past (from google!) they weren't interested in continuing their acquaintance. This is partly because of stuff he's done in the past, and partly because he's been shitty to people they know in their social circle. Molly hasn't ordered anyone to cut of contact with him or anything- there is no 'him vs her' in this case-- Molly is their friend of many years. They barely know Andy, and for the most part, what they know of him they don't like. Not a single person who has met him in LA *wants* to be friends with him anymore, and there isn't a reason in the world they should give a near-stranger with a shady past who was an ass to their friend some kind of chance.
One of the people in this social circle forwarded the relevant info to Andy's part time, informal employer (another friend, since mostly Andy seems to be relying on social networking), who decided she'd prefer to not work with him in the future.
Since Andy didn't *actually have a job*, its hard to describe this as being fired. Since most of these people were acquaintances he knew from Molly, it's hard to see how her talking about this with her friends constitutes 'ruining his life and career'. A social network is not a career.
Molly has since contacted the AA blogs, which connects this to the general Andy timeline.
Andy's friends are ACTIVELY perpetuating the narrative of the first two facts, blaming this on the AA blogs. The volume of the obfuscation is incredible. Apart from providing an easily found record of events over the last 25 years, the blogs were completely un-involved! How can anyone blame these events on the AA community, and say that it's destroying his life and preventing him from making a fresh start? They talk a lot about what we want from Andy, to prove he's changed-- but what exactly do they want from us??? Do they want the teablogger to just...delete their blog? Do they want the fanlore thanfiction information to vanish? Should Molly's friends be rolling out the red carpet and purchasing commissions from someone they owe nothing too? Is that what the 'benefit of the doubt' entails???
If his friends in VA care about him at all, and he was honest with them about his plans, how can they have agreed that it was a good idea for him to move across the country without a job or a rental agreement? I suspect that he didn't tell them that, and that he straight up lied to them about his arrangements for the summer. He's certainly lying to them now. That's something they should think about.
Also Molly said she had already decided to ask Andy to leave, without having looked at any of his past on any AA blog. The AA blogs only confirmed that what she was experiencing was the norm for him and perhaps sped up the timeline a bit.
Another thing I've noticed, that I wanted to put a pin in: Andy publicly says that he mistreated Abbey, and he graciously gives her leave to talk about that, etc., but his defenders have a very similar way of talking about her that leads me to speculate that she's a common talking point behind the scenes.
Several years ago there was the dust-up over ceirdwenfc accusing Abbey of sexually taking advantage of Andy as a minor (Andy had told her they'd gotten together at 17). When it turned out that Abbey had documentation that she hadn't met him until he was 19, Andy posted a great big 'apology' and left CFC out to dry.
In his most recent post-Molly clarification post, he says that NONE of the people have actually met him in real life except for Abbey. This is wildly untrue. People who have posted on various AA media include Winjennster (to some extent), the two people from the trail of tears hike, Brittany's father, and one former DAYDian. Diamond also blogged on livejournal about her time with Andy, and her descriptions are really viscerally horrifying. TF-talk also had a 'who actually knows andy IRL' thread, and multiple people did, or were very close to people who did. HOWEVER, it's again leading people to the idea that all this information about him dates back to Abbey EXCLUSIVELY...again, the person who was only with him from ages 19-24 when he still gets some 'messed up kid' benefit of the doubt.
Now from in the Andrew Blake FAQ post we have someone saying:
"I’ve read the accusations made against him, and find them odd, to say the least. It’s clear he had some sort of mental breakdown, and dragged a few people along with him, but I also kind of wonder at the sort of people who would invest so heavily in a delusional teenager in the first place. The phrases “hobbit cult” and “communed with elves from another dimension” rather baffle me.
From all accounts (including her own) Andy’s misadventures with his ex, Abbey, seem at least as much her responsibility as his, if anything, because she was an adult at the time and he was a minor."
The same person, in response to Abbey:
"Don’t bother. Andy does that himself. And he’s not a teenager any more, and he’s not involved in fandom anymore, so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do. He also has a lot of skeptical no-bullshit friends who are keeping a close eye"
A different person:
"When I was 18 I believed an anime dog demon was my true love and we were meant to be together. The adults who loved me found out and got me help.They did not tell me I was special and then help me fake my death. They did not smuggle me across the country and use me as the figurehead of a cult. They sure as hell didn't place the actions of an adult on my childish behavior. Y'all relationship was toxic but it was mutually toxic. Take some responsibility, get some therapy, and live your life."
Again, we have multiple people implying that Andy's only victim was Abbey, and that his 'abuse' all took place during that 19-24 year old window.
If Abbey was the only reference for Andy awareness, I'd be skeptical too. He WAS young, folie a duex is a thing. If it was Abbey and Diamond (let me again reiterate how affecting I found her writing about this), I'd be much more skeptical of the 'there's two sides to the story' statements.
But...after his channeling hobbits/Tentmoot/alternate universe X-men/Pevensie children, he posted an 'apology' saying he'd been a mixed up kid sufferring from gender dysphoria and he was out of fandom. Then he changed handles and started in Harry Potter.
In Harry Potter he did ALL THE SAME THINGS, and he wasn't 18-24 any more. There are many, many many accounts of this. This time also featured the 'evil twin sister', the 'pay for my travel because I'm dying of a heart defect', 'I was raised by Irish grandfather and fought on both sides of the Troubles', etc.
Then came Supernatural...
The Abbey stuff isn't the most recent. It isn't even the flashiest. The easiest to defend is probably the 'victim blaming him for Brittany's murder angle.' He probably has more notoriety as "Thanfiction" than he ever did as VB. But everyone goes back to the 'mixed up 19 year old who thinks he's talking to elves'. I would bet he likes to drop bread crumbs to that conclusion. He would NEVER say anything negative about his ex Abbey's role in all this...but he was very young...he was very mixed up...yes she was 5-6 years older than him, but he ABUSED her guys and he feels SO BADLY about it and deserves all this punishment and so much more...though it does suck that these total strangers are going after him in her name...etc.' I have no proof that this is the case, but I'd bet on it.
Several years ago there was the dust-up over ceirdwenfc accusing Abbey of sexually taking advantage of Andy as a minor (Andy had told her they'd gotten together at 17). When it turned out that Abbey had documentation that she hadn't met him until he was 19, Andy posted a great big 'apology' and left CFC out to dry.
In his most recent post-Molly clarification post, he says that NONE of the people have actually met him in real life except for Abbey. This is wildly untrue. People who have posted on various AA media include Winjennster (to some extent), the two people from the trail of tears hike, Brittany's father, and one former DAYDian. Diamond also blogged on livejournal about her time with Andy, and her descriptions are really viscerally horrifying. TF-talk also had a 'who actually knows andy IRL' thread, and multiple people did, or were very close to people who did. HOWEVER, it's again leading people to the idea that all this information about him dates back to Abbey EXCLUSIVELY...again, the person who was only with him from ages 19-24 when he still gets some 'messed up kid' benefit of the doubt.
Now from in the Andrew Blake FAQ post we have someone saying:
"I’ve read the accusations made against him, and find them odd, to say the least. It’s clear he had some sort of mental breakdown, and dragged a few people along with him, but I also kind of wonder at the sort of people who would invest so heavily in a delusional teenager in the first place. The phrases “hobbit cult” and “communed with elves from another dimension” rather baffle me.
From all accounts (including her own) Andy’s misadventures with his ex, Abbey, seem at least as much her responsibility as his, if anything, because she was an adult at the time and he was a minor."
The same person, in response to Abbey:
"Don’t bother. Andy does that himself. And he’s not a teenager any more, and he’s not involved in fandom anymore, so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do. He also has a lot of skeptical no-bullshit friends who are keeping a close eye"
A different person:
"When I was 18 I believed an anime dog demon was my true love and we were meant to be together. The adults who loved me found out and got me help.They did not tell me I was special and then help me fake my death. They did not smuggle me across the country and use me as the figurehead of a cult. They sure as hell didn't place the actions of an adult on my childish behavior. Y'all relationship was toxic but it was mutually toxic. Take some responsibility, get some therapy, and live your life."
Again, we have multiple people implying that Andy's only victim was Abbey, and that his 'abuse' all took place during that 19-24 year old window.
If Abbey was the only reference for Andy awareness, I'd be skeptical too. He WAS young, folie a duex is a thing. If it was Abbey and Diamond (let me again reiterate how affecting I found her writing about this), I'd be much more skeptical of the 'there's two sides to the story' statements.
But...after his channeling hobbits/Tentmoot/alternate universe X-men/Pevensie children, he posted an 'apology' saying he'd been a mixed up kid sufferring from gender dysphoria and he was out of fandom. Then he changed handles and started in Harry Potter.
In Harry Potter he did ALL THE SAME THINGS, and he wasn't 18-24 any more. There are many, many many accounts of this. This time also featured the 'evil twin sister', the 'pay for my travel because I'm dying of a heart defect', 'I was raised by Irish grandfather and fought on both sides of the Troubles', etc.
Then came Supernatural...
The Abbey stuff isn't the most recent. It isn't even the flashiest. The easiest to defend is probably the 'victim blaming him for Brittany's murder angle.' He probably has more notoriety as "Thanfiction" than he ever did as VB. But everyone goes back to the 'mixed up 19 year old who thinks he's talking to elves'. I would bet he likes to drop bread crumbs to that conclusion. He would NEVER say anything negative about his ex Abbey's role in all this...but he was very young...he was very mixed up...yes she was 5-6 years older than him, but he ABUSED her guys and he feels SO BADLY about it and deserves all this punishment and so much more...though it does suck that these total strangers are going after him in her name...etc.' I have no proof that this is the case, but I'd bet on it.
I just need to reiterate this point:
"And he’s not a teenager any more, and he’s not involved in fandom anymore, so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do. He also has a lot of skeptical no-bullshit friends who are keeping a close eye."
No, he wouldn't! He'd offer himself up as the older/wiser Man In Fandom who knows so much more about fandom things than you do and is so much more mature than you, little women children. That's what he did for DAYD. That's what he did in Supernatural. He's getting older, but his target demographic stays the same (young people, especially women).
"And he’s not a teenager any more, and he’s not involved in fandom anymore, so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do. He also has a lot of skeptical no-bullshit friends who are keeping a close eye."
No, he wouldn't! He'd offer himself up as the older/wiser Man In Fandom who knows so much more about fandom things than you do and is so much more mature than you, little women children. That's what he did for DAYD. That's what he did in Supernatural. He's getting older, but his target demographic stays the same (young people, especially women).
He tried pulling this schtick on an older crowd this time, i.e. Molly and co. It ended pretty badly for him. Even if the AA blogs hadn't existed, they had his number and it was an eventuality that he'd get kicked from their social circle the way he was acting toward them.
This is why he sticks to a younger demographic, and will likely not stray far from it the next time he tries to break into a fandom. And he appears to be trying to figure out how to evolve past wunderkind now that it's not a viable option anymore.
This is why he sticks to a younger demographic, and will likely not stray far from it the next time he tries to break into a fandom. And he appears to be trying to figure out how to evolve past wunderkind now that it's not a viable option anymore.
I was just thinking it's a pity that Fandom Wank and Journal Fen dissapeared. Because it was there when I first heard of Andy and his abuse, and I remember that even back then Abbey had to go and defend him (That's where the infamous "he has a very real penis" thing came from, if I remember correctly), and it would be so EASY to disprove the idea that he was a victim if it was possible to re-read those post. Because even THEN, before many of the horrible things that happened later, it was a common thread that Abbey was being manipulated by him. Sure, after the tentmoot disaster, she was considered as guilty and manipulative as him, but before that? Everyone on the outside could see the red flags. I think that one of the reasons why his defenders go back to the Abbey stuff is PRECISELY because we only have her words and our memories to back it up (And Turimel made it EASY to make it as if he was being attacked) . All the rest is easily found with google.
as a survivor of some pretty heinous abuse, the apologism going on by those ghouls is turning my stomach. how people can be so shamelessly cruel, callous, indifferent, oblivious, ignorant, vicious and spiteful... it makes me physically ill. I'm fully aware this won't be a popular comment, but those two particularly malicious jerks would benefit from having their front teeth kicked the fuck in.
I just don't fucking understand how these assholes are supposed to think anyone is going to learn a fucking RAPIST AND CULT LEADER has been a guest in their home, sleeping in the room next to theirs, and NOT freak the fuck out, feel violently ill and want to get such a person as far away from their home and community as fast as possible?
like, where the fuck is this cognitive dissonance occurring? are they genuinely trying to sell us the guff that if they found out their house-guest WAS A RAPIST, they'd just shrug it off as a mistake from the past???
COME ON.
like, where the fuck is this cognitive dissonance occurring? are they genuinely trying to sell us the guff that if they found out their house-guest WAS A RAPIST, they'd just shrug it off as a mistake from the past???
COME ON.
also, I AM SO FUCKING SICK of this hyper-hysterical reactionary idea the internet has cultivated that anyone in their early twenties dating anyone in their late teens IS A MONSTROUS PEDOPHILE PREDATOR DUN DUN DUUUNNNNNN!
I mean, I am one of those uptight bitches who is constantly bitching at my local queer community to have some fucking ethical consistency when it comes to remembering david bowie was a statutory rapist of 13 year olds, but there is EVERYTHING BROKEN about the current social justice cultural trend of insisting anyone under age 20 is an innocent, precious, untouched child and anyone over 20 is instantly a source of imminent sexual predatory danger to them. it's fucking bullshit.
the view from 38 is there really ain't much fucking difference between 18 and 24, SORRY NOT SORRY. they are both very, very, very young ages typified by general immaturity and inexperience. sure, at 24 you've lived a few more years as an adult but the range of your experience will depend on all kinds of cultural and social factors specific to your life. some 24yos are like babes in the woods, for real. the fact abbey had a husband and a house at 24 is honestly not evidence she was some mature functional adult - it's just the consequence of living in a heternormative world that actively guides women into those situations as soon as we hit adulthood. a 24yo can have a husband and a mortgage because the trajectory of western life is to get married and buy a house - and not be at all fucking ready for it - and abbey has indicated this herself.
abbey is not a predator because she was in a relationship with someone a few years younger than her but still in the same essential stage of life. 18-25 is an age-bracket for a fucking reason, it is typified by certain experiences and development that commonly occur for people between those ages. christ.
I mean, I am one of those uptight bitches who is constantly bitching at my local queer community to have some fucking ethical consistency when it comes to remembering david bowie was a statutory rapist of 13 year olds, but there is EVERYTHING BROKEN about the current social justice cultural trend of insisting anyone under age 20 is an innocent, precious, untouched child and anyone over 20 is instantly a source of imminent sexual predatory danger to them. it's fucking bullshit.
the view from 38 is there really ain't much fucking difference between 18 and 24, SORRY NOT SORRY. they are both very, very, very young ages typified by general immaturity and inexperience. sure, at 24 you've lived a few more years as an adult but the range of your experience will depend on all kinds of cultural and social factors specific to your life. some 24yos are like babes in the woods, for real. the fact abbey had a husband and a house at 24 is honestly not evidence she was some mature functional adult - it's just the consequence of living in a heternormative world that actively guides women into those situations as soon as we hit adulthood. a 24yo can have a husband and a mortgage because the trajectory of western life is to get married and buy a house - and not be at all fucking ready for it - and abbey has indicated this herself.
abbey is not a predator because she was in a relationship with someone a few years younger than her but still in the same essential stage of life. 18-25 is an age-bracket for a fucking reason, it is typified by certain experiences and development that commonly occur for people between those ages. christ.
every now and then you come across someone about whom you just think "gee,he world will be a better place when you die".
https://www.facebook.com/mollyunicornqueen/posts/2257236451170718?comment_id=2258593177701712&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D
will ravenjeep have the balls to admit he once again jumped the gun defending andy without having all the facts?
will he publicly apologise for harassing innocent people whilst defending a guilty one?
will he ever admit and recognise andy is playing him for a patsy?
or that at least andy isn't fucking honest with him?
I can't WAIT to see how this pans out. /sarcasm
will ravenjeep have the balls to admit he once again jumped the gun defending andy without having all the facts?
will he publicly apologise for harassing innocent people whilst defending a guilty one?
will he ever admit and recognise andy is playing him for a patsy?
or that at least andy isn't fucking honest with him?
I can't WAIT to see how this pans out. /sarcasm
"he didn't elaborate, except to say that what Andrew said happened did not at all match what I laid out for him."
Andy, saying things that aren't true? SHOCKER.
Andy, saying things that aren't true? SHOCKER.
This person can get fucked
AYRT
http://www.tattlecrime.org/jennifer-cornet/
The site's been there for a while but I only heard about it after Fredrick Knudson's video on the FF7 house. (Which was a decent overview, but left out a lot. I used to be LJ friends with Icarus, the person who wrote the original warning site, that's actually how I got interested in cults, and, by extension, Andy's bullshit.)
http://www.tattlecrime.org/jennifer-cornet/
The site's been there for a while but I only heard about it after Fredrick Knudson's video on the FF7 house. (Which was a decent overview, but left out a lot. I used to be LJ friends with Icarus, the person who wrote the original warning site, that's actually how I got interested in cults, and, by extension, Andy's bullshit.)
That little story was the most chilling thing I've ever read. I don't know why it isn't circulated more, as it's the most damning evidence there is of his manipulation, from his own hand.
Oh god, yeah, what a fucked up turn of phrase.
It's been a few years since I read 'Helter Skelter', the book about the Manson Family murders written by the prosecutor in the case, but iirc a lot of the defense on Manson's side was the same thing. A lot of implications that he wasn't REALLY a cult leader, his followers had made him a cult leader, he had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of their actions, etc etc
(Not saying that his followers who committed the murders are blameless, of course - just that people try to downplay Manson's control over them.)
It's been a few years since I read 'Helter Skelter', the book about the Manson Family murders written by the prosecutor in the case, but iirc a lot of the defense on Manson's side was the same thing. A lot of implications that he wasn't REALLY a cult leader, his followers had made him a cult leader, he had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of their actions, etc etc
(Not saying that his followers who committed the murders are blameless, of course - just that people try to downplay Manson's control over them.)
Great analysis overall.
I wanna narrow in on this for a second: "so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do"
What a huge over simplification of what cults are, not to mention victim blaming before any victims even exist! Outright stating that if he does start a cult again, his potential victims basically deserve it for being 'irrational'.
I wanna narrow in on this for a second: "so if he were to start a new cult it would be with rational adults who know the difference between reality and fantasy, which is a lot harder to do"
What a huge over simplification of what cults are, not to mention victim blaming before any victims even exist! Outright stating that if he does start a cult again, his potential victims basically deserve it for being 'irrational'.
+1
They can all get fucked
They can all get fucked
I fell for the lies of someone I knew IRL who was very much like a non-fandom version of Andy, and his defenders basically said that IF he had indeed told me the lies I said he did, it was my own fault for believing his ludicrous stories.
Seeing the same kind of sentiment in that facebook post makes me really worried for the people expressing that sentiment, because they're doing exactly what they're vilifying the victims for: placing an overwhelming amount of trust in Andy.
Seeing the same kind of sentiment in that facebook post makes me really worried for the people expressing that sentiment, because they're doing exactly what they're vilifying the victims for: placing an overwhelming amount of trust in Andy.
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