tf_talk | continued Thatfucker discussion

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continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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The sad thing is, if he wanted to play let's pretend with an obsessively absorbed listener, there's probably someone out there who'd be willing. I mean, there's probably some non-victimizing way to get that need met. I guess to him it feels safer, or maybe just more exciting, to do it the way he always has.

The victimisation is part of the appeal for him though. Like, lots of people just get on with stuff like this without it hurting anyone; it might not be the norm, but it's fairly common - see Spiritualism; there's some bad apples for sure, but by and large they're a pretty supportive bunch. For him to repeatedly isolate and abuse his victims means that the victimisation is at least part of, if not all of, the attraction.

The victimisation is part of the appeal for him though.

That's the way with any abuser, isn't it? There's all sorts of people into all sorts of things. For instance, there are people in the S&M community who are wildly enthusiastic about being flogged, but someone who hits their partner isn't going to willingly be a part of the S&M community, because S&M requires consent and safewords and aftercare. Boundaries and the like. A physical abuser isn't looking for boundaries, and will not be satisfied with them. Psychological/emotional abusers are very much the same, just different tactics.

As Andy himself has said, ironically and creepily enough, it's not about channeling, or roleplaying, or being creative. It's about the power he wields over people.

actually, a lot of abusers flourish in the bdsm community, as - like any abuser - they learn how to manipulate and coerce their victims. perpetuating the myth the bdsm community is a safehaven of abuse-free, fully consensual practices is dangerous. I've been abused within the community and know many others who have too. It's a BIG problem. I'm not looking to derail so I'll leave it at that.

+1

AYRT - Didn't mean to imply BDSM is totally safe, kind of meant the exact opposite, that abusers are going to abuse regardless of the situation and because of that, I don't think there IS someone that could ever be 'someone out there who'd be willing' to go through Andy's bullshit. There are people who are willing to get flogged as part of S&M but not willing to get abused. There are people who are willing to roleplay or believe in channelling, but not those who are willingly signing up to be emotionally manipulated.

AYRT

It is sad. It seems he wants his fantasy worlds to be real, and filled with people who think he's wonderful. Ultimately it's all to feed his very hungry ego. Playing pretend is fine for children, in fact it's healthy. Unfortunately, with Andy this isn't a game, and the damage he does is very real.

One wonders how much he hates himself that he has to reconstruct the world to make himself feel better.

I have known someone who's behavior is very much like this and they still don't believe that they have ever been in the wrong. It is ALWAYS someone else fault.

Even with all of his faux apologies, he never really says sorry. It is always Sorry but (fill in excuse or person that he says it is really at fault) here.

As he gets older, the harder it is going to be for him to pull this stunt. Eventually he'll be that creepy old man that everyone avoids at conventions.

Eventually he'll be that creepy old man that everyone avoids at conventions.

Ugh, I wish. My rapist was like this, and also used his youthful looks to continue hanging around middle and high schoolers into his twenties, but he STILL managed to have kids. I'm just saying, sometimes people keep it up way longer than you'd expect.

Plenty of middle-aged and older people successfully pull stunts like this their whole lives. L. Ron Hubbard didn't publish Dianetics until he was 39, and founded Scientology four years later. This kind of manipulation and abuse is not something one gets less skilled at as one ages -- quite the opposite. As Andy ages, the better he'll be able to pose as some kind of guru.

there's probably some non-victimizing way to get that need met

I disagree. Hurting people is his goal. His "need" is to victimize people; confabulation is merely a tool.

THIS

He loves fucking up lives. He loves knowing that people are suffering and that their anguish is because of things he said and did. That's his true drug; the channeling shtick is just the syringe.

Way back in his Frodo days, he could have easily told Abbey and Diamond that they had saved the day and the hobbits were happy now, and wanted them to be happy too. Instead he kept flinging crises at them, because he loved watching them agonize over them. They thought real people they loved were in danger and pain, and Andy was thrilled that they believed that.

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