For all your Andy-related info-dumping needs. If there's information you'd like to archive, please post it here, and feel free to link to it from the main post if you'd like to discuss it.
Rescue Ranger What I did then - I had a saving people thing that would have made Harry Potter queasy. If someone was in trouble, I had to swoop in and fix it, which usually meant drawing them in close under my protective wing…and right into the crazy soup. Why it was wrong - Unsurprisingly, people who are notably not ok are also more likely to be grateful to be part of a small, special group of people who are willing to do anything for each other, value having a Big Higher Purpose, be willing to believe in magic and miracles, and otherwise be extremely vulnerable to cults and cult-like things. Also unsurprisingly, getting involved in something like that when you’re already fucked up only makes it worse, no matter how good the intentions of helping. All I wanted was to make people better. Every so often, I did. More often - and once would have been too many times - I hurt them worse. What I’m doing differently - I am not a trained therapist, social worker, police officer, or doctor. If you’re in trouble, I will listen, offer you my best advice (which is actually, now that I’m medicated and it’s coming from ME, not my superpowers, sometimes pretty decent or at least hard-won, but I always make sure it’s properly disclaimered) and help you get in touch with professional resources that are actually equipped to solve your problem. Further world and people-saving impulses are channeled through structured activities by established charities like Random Acts.
Inside Man What I did then - - I believed that I had secret insider knowledge of all sorts of things, especially medicine, government, the military, the legal field, and entertainment industry. Often this came from Others who were in those fields. I would act accordingly, even so far as to perform minor surgery, prescribe medication and courses of treatment, create legal documents, etc. It also lead me to believe I had special relationships with celebrities and to behave inappropriately towards them. Why it was wrong - Once, I tried to use my “insider knowledge” of the entertainment industry to try to plan a full-scale convention the size of Vegas Con with just a half dozen other people who had never done any such thing, six months, and a budget of a few hundred dollars. Needless to say, it went so badly it’s still notorious over ten years later…but the money and face lost with that was relatively minor considering. I endangered people’s health, finances, legal standings, careers, schooling, and basically everything else thinking I knew shit I didn’t fucking know. What I’m doing differently - There is a reason that I say over and over and over again on all of my meta that I don’t work for SPN or write for any other TV show or have anything to do with that industry. I am extremely consciencious now of where my actual expertise stands, and to keep my experting within those fields. If I can’t prove why I know the thing, I don’t care if I think I know it, I know I don’t know it. I also make sure to check my behavior with and around celebrities and follow outside cues for the boundaries THEY set while reminding myself that I have no more status with them than any other fan in the same situation.
Story Time What I did then - I believed that my stories and the lives of the Others were of tremendous, even sacred importance. It was my duty and mission to make sure they were told, and the only way in some cases to guide the course of events (for the scenarios that were interactive) and/or put their spirits to rest (for those that had ‘already happened’). Why it was wrong - I was prioritizing what were effectively role-playing-games-that-didn’t-know-it and elaborate fic writing and world building over actual life, and what’s worse, I thought it was real, treated it as real, and persuaded others to do the same. I had people call out sick to work to help me defeat enemies that only existed in my head because at one point I literally thought that we were going back in time and stopping Hitler. That’s not ok. What I’m doing differently - Extradiegesis is my new best friend. I have come to understand that my stories are my stories, my characters are my characters. I created them, I didn’t summon them from another realm, and I HAVE CONTROL. If they don’t get written, not a damned thing happens, and it’s never, never ok to put writing fiction for a hobby ahead of any real person.
Secret Keepers What I did then - There was a tremendous, tremendous pressure to keep my abilities and everything related to them secret. If I was found out, it was made very clear that whomever had been responsible for the breach would be responsible for whatever happened to me, whether I had to disappear and go on the run so that They didn’t get me, whether I had to kill myself rather than fall into Their hands, or whether They actually managed to capture me after all…and all the subsequent torture, imprisonment, and other sundry horrors, including of course what would happen to all those other worlds and people and to the rest of the inner circle if I were no longer able to “help.” Why it was wrong - This placed a horrific burden of guilt that prevented people from acting on what would have been otherwise extremely smart instincts to GTFO, as well as creating a massively high stakes Us Vs Them situation, requiring them to lie, and requiring them to isolate the truth of how they were living from family and other friends, eventually alienating them. It also fostered a tremendous mistrust of authority figures, especially police, social workers, doctors, and mental health workers…the very people they should have been running to. What I’m doing differently - Hell yes I still have some secrets with some people whom I really trust. It’s called privacy, and that’s ok and healthy. What I don’t have are catastrophic sword of Damocles arrangements, I don’t expect anyone to live a lie for me or to help me perpetrate same, and I understand that if someone betrays my trust…life will go on, even if it will hurt.
Apocalypse Now What I did then - Everything was always endgame, high stakes, the big one. Something on some plane of reality was always in a state of crisis, and if things seemed ok, it was an indicator that something was about to hit the fan. This made it impossible to plan anything well, and we were always in crisis mode and playing catch up. Insomnia was a fact of existence when my brain was running away with itself, and I would sometimes sleep as little as 21 hours in a week. Why it was wrong - Without even meaning to, I was literally creating brainwashing conditions for the poor bastards who were trying to be my watchers. Constant stress, absolutely no set schedule, sleep deprevation…and of course, anything at any time could be overridden by an emergency, so if you were looking forward to something important, flip a coin whether you’ll actually get to do it. What I’m doing differently - Other than of course, the tremendous relief of being alone in my head and on only one plane of reality, I am working very hard to keep a sense of perspective. This is something else I backslid on during GISHWHES. Fandom should be fun. It’s not the end of the world, it’s ok if things go wrong…but things are almost never actually a crisis and should not be treated as such.
Zardoz has spoken What I did then - I would act on things that the Others had told me, what they told other people, or that I had read in peoples minds, seen in the future, or simply “knew.” Why it was wrong - Because all of that was complete bullshit with a healthy dose of paranoia. I don’t know where they are now - I know that at least one of them is, sadly, passed away, though I’m making the gesture anyway to make it known to anyone who cares that I am taking responsibility - but if this somehow gets around to any of them: Jason R, Gabriel A, Kyrie A, Cherie D, Leah B, Kaitlin A, and Amber B, I severed our friendships, shamed you to others, and accused you of awful things based on what I now know to be hallucinations, and if you see this and choose to contact me, I want to apologize fully. I also owe apologies to the parents of Amanda K, Kaitlin A, and Kristin N among others, for having made completely unfair judgements of their families that had awful consequences for their relationships. What I’m doing differently - If I did not see it my damned self on this plane of reality or the person did not directly tell me about it without prompting or leading questions, I’m not acting on it. If I’m going to cut you off as a friend, it’ll be for what you did to me, not what some supernatural entity says you did to them on another plane of reality.
Do You Remember When What I did then - Because I have an exceptional memory for certain kinds of data, I assumed that my memory was flawless on all things, and I related memories as facts. If something or someone else contradicted me, I declared them mistaken or lying. Why it was wrong: Because I have a massive problem with differentiating created and real memories, I was often recounting inaccurate information…on top of the perfectly normal iffiness of memory which I never alloted for. As a result, I not only unfairly reconstructed events to fit what I needed at the moment, but I also wound up gaslighting people who knew they remembered A by insisting fervently that B was true and that they couldn’t trust their memories. What I’m doing differently: Unless I’ve been told the story by a third party or have some outside corroboration, if it’s a long-term event memory, I’m assuming it’s at the very least distorted and weighing whether I use it accordingly. In other words, if my memory of what my grandmother put in macaroni and cheese is inaccurate, no real harm done, so I’ll go ahead and put the peas and tuna in without much investigation. When I remembered a 5th grade friend holding my head under the pool, however, I sought validation from my parents before sharing with others. My default is now that the other person remembers correctly, not that I do.
Master Plan What I did then: I believed that I was executing a divine plan and therefore if I trusted in God and just did my best, everything would work out in the end somehow no matter how much it seemed like things were going wrong and that He would just send the money, people, or whatever were needed to make it happen. Why it was wrong: I failed to learn from mistakes, ignored warning signs that things were going wrong, and skipped important steps or details. This often put us in deep last minute hot water or lead to uneccesary complications, and rather than God, the burden often fell on my friends to bale us out…which I then used as proof that see, it had all been ok in the end. What I’m doing differently: If something isn’t going well, I stop and ask for help and re-assess the situation. If necessary, like with the intended Camp Ouroboros LARP, I quit rather than plow ahead and assume that it will all come together or other people will pick up the slack. While it is ok to leave some details to the last minute, if it’s vital, it needs to not only be known, but have a backup plan.
TL:DR - From about 1999-2011, most (though not all) of my friendships and relationships were tainted or completely consumed by mental illness that caused them to be deeply fucked up and damaging affairs that revolved around my special secret superpowers and the people who “helped me live with them.” Now, all my friendships and relationships revolve around shared interests and activities in the real world that are based on healthy third party parameters with a strong awareness of extradiegesis. In other words, we hang out and watch and talk about TV shows, make stuff, and sometimes go out and do fun things like anyone else. It’s not special, it’s not saving the world (any more than Random Acts, volunteer work, etc)…and I wouldn’t trade it for all the superpowers I ever thought I had.
I also need to acknowledge and thank my parents, Mike and Cyd, for still loving me, taking me back again and again, forgiving me too many times for too many things, and getting me help (and paying for it until I could get insurance and being understanding of all the disaster that recovery can be), Karen for sticking by me but never enabling, Brittany for first showing me that I needed help, Laura, Kristin, and Ed for the intervention and making me start getting it, my care team, Dr’s T, K, J, C, and G, Meg (wings-andgrace), Chris, and Jenn for being the first friends I had to whom I confessed everything and for not walking away when I did, the posse for teaching me what a fucking phenomenally abnosome thing “just friendship” really can be, Misha Collins for giving me hope that I can still be abnosome and brash and eccentric and creative and a leader who wants to help all the people and change all the things, Osric Chau for pinning me down and making me face what I was giving up because of fear of Them finding out how crazy crazy really was and what awful things I’d done, and last but oh so not least, a certain angel for giving me the courage to believe I can openly say just how fucked up I was and still be worth loving as I am now.
In response to other anon calling your post manipulative, I (as another human who likes you and thinks you're p cool) believe that it was an explanation that opens the way for forgiveness, though not forgetfulness. I'm aware of some of the things you've done now to an extent, and I am using that awareness in knowing you. But I am not condemning you for something that's in past, when you're so obviously trying to move away from it. Grounds for forgiveness, but staying aware, if that makes sense. Anonymous
The forgiveness I’m grateful for, but really it was mostly about awareness. I want people to be able to recognize that shit in themselves and others and keep an eye out for it in me. I also think that it’s more helpful to understand where that kind of shit can come from because while “He’s EEEEEeeeEEEEVIL and just does it for the BWAHAHAHA of it!” can make you feel very safe and superior…it can also put you in a lot of danger because it makes you feel safe and superior.
I believed all that. To the bottom of my soul. I literally put my life on the line for it more than once. People who had been warned that I was a “con man” or “scam artist” or “liar” or “serial abuser” wound up in awful, fucked-up relationships with me because they looked into my eyes and knew that I loved them and only wanted the best for them and to help them and that I was letting them in on deeply personal secrets about Great Truths and real world magical superpowers that gave them a chance to literally live part of their favorite fantasy worlds…and that I meant every fucking word with utter sincerity signed in blood with my heart on my sleeve. They wound up hurt because they were warned about the wrong thing.
They didn’t need to be told “he’s a monster who will cut you and throw salt on you and set you on fire to get his kicks,” because they could see for themselves I wasn’t that kind of person, so the warning got discarded. They needed to be told “he believes in monsters and doesn’t understand SPN isn’t real, and will think he’s saving you when he suddenly hallucinates your eyes going black; don’t wind up reliving 5.02.”
They were told about a wolf. They had their checklists and field guides and were watching for a wolf. They got bit by a rabid Yorkie because they’d been given the wrong descriptions.
I am not saying “I didn’t do the bad thing.” I’m saying I didn’t do THAT bad thing and that if you want to protect yourself and others from not only me but any mentally ill person with delusional beliefs, THIS is the bad thing you need to watch out for.
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Did You Really have a Cult (continued) (Asked by Colourmycity)
(Anonymous) 2015-04-11 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)What I did then - I had a saving people thing that would have made Harry Potter queasy. If someone was in trouble, I had to swoop in and fix it, which usually meant drawing them in close under my protective wing…and right into the crazy soup.
Why it was wrong - Unsurprisingly, people who are notably not ok are also more likely to be grateful to be part of a small, special group of people who are willing to do anything for each other, value having a Big Higher Purpose, be willing to believe in magic and miracles, and otherwise be extremely vulnerable to cults and cult-like things. Also unsurprisingly, getting involved in something like that when you’re already fucked up only makes it worse, no matter how good the intentions of helping. All I wanted was to make people better. Every so often, I did. More often - and once would have been too many times - I hurt them worse.
What I’m doing differently - I am not a trained therapist, social worker, police officer, or doctor. If you’re in trouble, I will listen, offer you my best advice (which is actually, now that I’m medicated and it’s coming from ME, not my superpowers, sometimes pretty decent or at least hard-won, but I always make sure it’s properly disclaimered) and help you get in touch with professional resources that are actually equipped to solve your problem. Further world and people-saving impulses are channeled through structured activities by established charities like Random Acts.
Inside Man
What I did then - - I believed that I had secret insider knowledge of all sorts of things, especially medicine, government, the military, the legal field, and entertainment industry. Often this came from Others who were in those fields. I would act accordingly, even so far as to perform minor surgery, prescribe medication and courses of treatment, create legal documents, etc. It also lead me to believe I had special relationships with celebrities and to behave inappropriately towards them.
Why it was wrong - Once, I tried to use my “insider knowledge” of the entertainment industry to try to plan a full-scale convention the size of Vegas Con with just a half dozen other people who had never done any such thing, six months, and a budget of a few hundred dollars. Needless to say, it went so badly it’s still notorious over ten years later…but the money and face lost with that was relatively minor considering. I endangered people’s health, finances, legal standings, careers, schooling, and basically everything else thinking I knew shit I didn’t fucking know.
What I’m doing differently - There is a reason that I say over and over and over again on all of my meta that I don’t work for SPN or write for any other TV show or have anything to do with that industry. I am extremely consciencious now of where my actual expertise stands, and to keep my experting within those fields. If I can’t prove why I know the thing, I don’t care if I think I know it, I know I don’t know it. I also make sure to check my behavior with and around celebrities and follow outside cues for the boundaries THEY set while reminding myself that I have no more status with them than any other fan in the same situation.
Story Time
What I did then - I believed that my stories and the lives of the Others were of tremendous, even sacred importance. It was my duty and mission to make sure they were told, and the only way in some cases to guide the course of events (for the scenarios that were interactive) and/or put their spirits to rest (for those that had ‘already happened’).
Why it was wrong - I was prioritizing what were effectively role-playing-games-that-didn’t-know-it and elaborate fic writing and world building over actual life, and what’s worse, I thought it was real, treated it as real, and persuaded others to do the same. I had people call out sick to work to help me defeat enemies that only existed in my head because at one point I literally thought that we were going back in time and stopping Hitler. That’s not ok.
What I’m doing differently - Extradiegesis is my new best friend. I have come to understand that my stories are my stories, my characters are my characters. I created them, I didn’t summon them from another realm, and I HAVE CONTROL. If they don’t get written, not a damned thing happens, and it’s never, never ok to put writing fiction for a hobby ahead of any real person.
Secret Keepers
What I did then - There was a tremendous, tremendous pressure to keep my abilities and everything related to them secret. If I was found out, it was made very clear that whomever had been responsible for the breach would be responsible for whatever happened to me, whether I had to disappear and go on the run so that They didn’t get me, whether I had to kill myself rather than fall into Their hands, or whether They actually managed to capture me after all…and all the subsequent torture, imprisonment, and other sundry horrors, including of course what would happen to all those other worlds and people and to the rest of the inner circle if I were no longer able to “help.”
Why it was wrong - This placed a horrific burden of guilt that prevented people from acting on what would have been otherwise extremely smart instincts to GTFO, as well as creating a massively high stakes Us Vs Them situation, requiring them to lie, and requiring them to isolate the truth of how they were living from family and other friends, eventually alienating them. It also fostered a tremendous mistrust of authority figures, especially police, social workers, doctors, and mental health workers…the very people they should have been running to.
What I’m doing differently - Hell yes I still have some secrets with some people whom I really trust. It’s called privacy, and that’s ok and healthy. What I don’t have are catastrophic sword of Damocles arrangements, I don’t expect anyone to live a lie for me or to help me perpetrate same, and I understand that if someone betrays my trust…life will go on, even if it will hurt.
Apocalypse Now
What I did then - Everything was always endgame, high stakes, the big one. Something on some plane of reality was always in a state of crisis, and if things seemed ok, it was an indicator that something was about to hit the fan. This made it impossible to plan anything well, and we were always in crisis mode and playing catch up. Insomnia was a fact of existence when my brain was running away with itself, and I would sometimes sleep as little as 21 hours in a week.
Why it was wrong - Without even meaning to, I was literally creating brainwashing conditions for the poor bastards who were trying to be my watchers. Constant stress, absolutely no set schedule, sleep deprevation…and of course, anything at any time could be overridden by an emergency, so if you were looking forward to something important, flip a coin whether you’ll actually get to do it.
What I’m doing differently - Other than of course, the tremendous relief of being alone in my head and on only one plane of reality, I am working very hard to keep a sense of perspective. This is something else I backslid on during GISHWHES. Fandom should be fun. It’s not the end of the world, it’s ok if things go wrong…but things are almost never actually a crisis and should not be treated as such.
Zardoz has spoken
What I did then - I would act on things that the Others had told me, what they told other people, or that I had read in peoples minds, seen in the future, or simply “knew.”
Why it was wrong - Because all of that was complete bullshit with a healthy dose of paranoia. I don’t know where they are now - I know that at least one of them is, sadly, passed away, though I’m making the gesture anyway to make it known to anyone who cares that I am taking responsibility - but if this somehow gets around to any of them: Jason R, Gabriel A, Kyrie A, Cherie D, Leah B, Kaitlin A, and Amber B, I severed our friendships, shamed you to others, and accused you of awful things based on what I now know to be hallucinations, and if you see this and choose to contact me, I want to apologize fully. I also owe apologies to the parents of Amanda K, Kaitlin A, and Kristin N among others, for having made completely unfair judgements of their families that had awful consequences for their relationships.
What I’m doing differently - If I did not see it my damned self on this plane of reality or the person did not directly tell me about it without prompting or leading questions, I’m not acting on it. If I’m going to cut you off as a friend, it’ll be for what you did to me, not what some supernatural entity says you did to them on another plane of reality.
Do You Remember When
What I did then - Because I have an exceptional memory for certain kinds of data, I assumed that my memory was flawless on all things, and I related memories as facts. If something or someone else contradicted me, I declared them mistaken or lying.
Why it was wrong: Because I have a massive problem with differentiating created and real memories, I was often recounting inaccurate information…on top of the perfectly normal iffiness of memory which I never alloted for. As a result, I not only unfairly reconstructed events to fit what I needed at the moment, but I also wound up gaslighting people who knew they remembered A by insisting fervently that B was true and that they couldn’t trust their memories.
What I’m doing differently: Unless I’ve been told the story by a third party or have some outside corroboration, if it’s a long-term event memory, I’m assuming it’s at the very least distorted and weighing whether I use it accordingly. In other words, if my memory of what my grandmother put in macaroni and cheese is inaccurate, no real harm done, so I’ll go ahead and put the peas and tuna in without much investigation. When I remembered a 5th grade friend holding my head under the pool, however, I sought validation from my parents before sharing with others. My default is now that the other person remembers correctly, not that I do.
Master Plan
What I did then: I believed that I was executing a divine plan and therefore if I trusted in God and just did my best, everything would work out in the end somehow no matter how much it seemed like things were going wrong and that He would just send the money, people, or whatever were needed to make it happen.
Why it was wrong: I failed to learn from mistakes, ignored warning signs that things were going wrong, and skipped important steps or details. This often put us in deep last minute hot water or lead to uneccesary complications, and rather than God, the burden often fell on my friends to bale us out…which I then used as proof that see, it had all been ok in the end.
What I’m doing differently: If something isn’t going well, I stop and ask for help and re-assess the situation. If necessary, like with the intended Camp Ouroboros LARP, I quit rather than plow ahead and assume that it will all come together or other people will pick up the slack. While it is ok to leave some details to the last minute, if it’s vital, it needs to not only be known, but have a backup plan.
TL:DR - From about 1999-2011, most (though not all) of my friendships and relationships were tainted or completely consumed by mental illness that caused them to be deeply fucked up and damaging affairs that revolved around my special secret superpowers and the people who “helped me live with them.” Now, all my friendships and relationships revolve around shared interests and activities in the real world that are based on healthy third party parameters with a strong awareness of extradiegesis. In other words, we hang out and watch and talk about TV shows, make stuff, and sometimes go out and do fun things like anyone else. It’s not special, it’s not saving the world (any more than Random Acts, volunteer work, etc)…and I wouldn’t trade it for all the superpowers I ever thought I had.
I also need to acknowledge and thank my parents, Mike and Cyd, for still loving me, taking me back again and again, forgiving me too many times for too many things, and getting me help (and paying for it until I could get insurance and being understanding of all the disaster that recovery can be), Karen for sticking by me but never enabling, Brittany for first showing me that I needed help, Laura, Kristin, and Ed for the intervention and making me start getting it, my care team, Dr’s T, K, J, C, and G, Meg (wings-andgrace), Chris, and Jenn for being the first friends I had to whom I confessed everything and for not walking away when I did, the posse for teaching me what a fucking phenomenally abnosome thing “just friendship” really can be, Misha Collins for giving me hope that I can still be abnosome and brash and eccentric and creative and a leader who wants to help all the people and change all the things, Osric Chau for pinning me down and making me face what I was giving up because of fear of Them finding out how crazy crazy really was and what awful things I’d done, and last but oh so not least, a certain angel for giving me the courage to believe I can openly say just how fucked up I was and still be worth loving as I am now.
Anon ask in response to that post
(Anonymous) 2015-04-11 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)Anonymous
The forgiveness I’m grateful for, but really it was mostly about awareness. I want people to be able to recognize that shit in themselves and others and keep an eye out for it in me. I also think that it’s more helpful to understand where that kind of shit can come from because while “He’s EEEEEeeeEEEEVIL and just does it for the BWAHAHAHA of it!” can make you feel very safe and superior…it can also put you in a lot of danger because it makes you feel safe and superior.
I believed all that. To the bottom of my soul. I literally put my life on the line for it more than once. People who had been warned that I was a “con man” or “scam artist” or “liar” or “serial abuser” wound up in awful, fucked-up relationships with me because they looked into my eyes and knew that I loved them and only wanted the best for them and to help them and that I was letting them in on deeply personal secrets about Great Truths and real world magical superpowers that gave them a chance to literally live part of their favorite fantasy worlds…and that I meant every fucking word with utter sincerity signed in blood with my heart on my sleeve. They wound up hurt because they were warned about the wrong thing.
They didn’t need to be told “he’s a monster who will cut you and throw salt on you and set you on fire to get his kicks,” because they could see for themselves I wasn’t that kind of person, so the warning got discarded. They needed to be told “he believes in monsters and doesn’t understand SPN isn’t real, and will think he’s saving you when he suddenly hallucinates your eyes going black; don’t wind up reliving 5.02.”
They were told about a wolf. They had their checklists and field guides and were watching for a wolf. They got bit by a rabid Yorkie because they’d been given the wrong descriptions.
I am not saying “I didn’t do the bad thing.” I’m saying I didn’t do THAT bad thing and that if you want to protect yourself and others from not only me but any mentally ill person with delusional beliefs, THIS is the bad thing you need to watch out for.