tf_talk | Gloves Off

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Please use this post for discussion of those contentious, murky, triggering issues too complex to discuss/moderate on the main post.

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Can you explain what you idealized about Andy, back when you did? I mean, what you believed about him then as opposed to now, or maybe just what traits of his struck you as most significant then?

(I can ask this over on your tumblr if you'd rather.)

Same anon, and I should have clarified that I'm not the anon you were replying to!

It's hard to narrow it down, really. I've stated that I was pretty depressed when I met him, and was having trouble enjoying life outside of work (work was hands down miserable, almost all the time), because I had only one or two casual friends/acquaintances who weren't always available.

As someone born in a small town who really hadn't done many exciting things, it was a huge turnaround to suddenly be invited to a Pride parade with him and Jenn, or to be asked to help with GISHWHES, etc. etc. I used to think that Andy was this amazing, unique, flawless individual who always knew how to have fun. I had a lot of trouble during my first nine or so months of knowing him learning that he is NOT perfect and that it is NOT a good idea to idealize or idolize him. I learned that he's fucked up a lot, a lot more than anyone I have ever met in my life. And when I started therapy, and then lost my license for three months and therefore had very limited time to spend with him, I was able to pull back. I took a look at the situation as a whole, and I was able to pull back from a dependent, idealized, unhealthy friendship and with some help from Jenn and my therapist, I was able to restart, in a way, at a healthier point, more independent, and more aware that nobody is perfect, DEFINITELY not Andy.

I don't know if any of that makes sense. I understand that Andy has caused a LOT of shit in the past. I know that sounds like an understatement, but it'd require a great speech to give it the detail it deserves. I do want to say that I'm aware of these mistakes. And trust me; I keep them in mind as I go forward with my life as a friend of Andy's.

- Meg

"Mistakes."

All the abuse he inflicted on people (much of it VERY recent), starting multiple cults, cruelties both huge and petty.

You are really young. And I am seeing you saying some of the exact same things that I once thought about the guy who abused me, that I've heard countless times from women who have been abused. I don't expect you to listen now. But I hope you know that there are a lot of people out here on your side.

All the abuse he inflicted on people (much of it VERY recent), starting multiple cults, cruelties both huge and petty.

I would keep in mind (correct me if I'm wrong, Meg) that Meg probably believes Andy's claim that schizophrenia led to his channeling and cult-creating. She probably doesn't believe Andy's abuses were calculated and intentional. It's hard to imagine someone remaining his friend if they thought otherwise.

So it's not that Meg using the work "mistake" is downplaying his cruelty, so much as buying into Andy's claim that he did those things operating under a false worldview created by mental illness. The gist of his tumblr FAQ seems to be that Andy was "mistaken" about his abilities and the nature of reality, and made bad choices because of that.

*word, not work

Hi Meg, I hope this question doesn't come off as rude or insensitive, but I wonder if this pulling back from Andy was before you moved into his house? Because that would seem like getting closer, not pulling back.

Nah, I've continued to pull back and keep the friendship in a healthier place even after moving in. I know a lot of you will probably never believe it (especially since some of you believe his parents are as manipulated as anyone else), but it was not Andy's doing to coerce or invite me to live with him. I was offered room and board by his parents in exchange for services such as yard work, taking care of the horses, etc. And truthfully, I will be here for several years longer than Andy will, and I'm certainly not intending to follow him, wherever he goes when he moves out.

- Meg

If you don't mind answering some more questions, what were the circumstances of Andy's parents inviting you to move in? And how do you get along with them, generally? Are you treated as a houseguest, a boarder, or a friend of their son who's spending a few nights?

The previous groundskeeper, so to speak, got engaged and was set to move out at the end of August. The Players like having someone else around to help with general all-around-the-house things, but mostly with caring for the horses. When he moved out, I was asked if I would like to move in. Since I was living in my barracks at the time and the mere thought of staying overnight there would cause my heart to start racing in fear, I happily accepted the offer.

I get along with them really well! They're very kind to me and both have great senses of humor and are very caring people.

I'm treated basically like family. I'm involved in a lot of decisions like house maintenance and gatherings and such. I'm considered basically a close family friend to them, and they said regardless of my relationship with Andy, they will always be my friends and mentors. They're a lot like second parents to me.

- Meg

AYRT Thanks for answering, Meg. That actually makes a lot of sense to me.

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