Gloves Off

[anonniemouse]

Please use this post for discussion of those contentious, murky, triggering issues too complex to discuss/moderate on the main post.

Note that this post is NOT a free-for-all and will still be modded for slurs, namecalling, doxxing and trolling. But fair warning that it will not be moderated for discussion of issues some find triggering (trans issues, mental illness, etc.) and that if you choose to participate here, you do so at your own risk.

Comments

Re: So what would it take?

[(Anonymous)]

What do you mean by "detrimental consequences for him"? Not a trick question, I just think that's something that will vary widely depending on who you ask. I can recognize that someone has grown and changed and isn't again going to do the same terrible things they did previously without forgetting that they did them.

I don't think it happens all at once, is the thing. Growth is not some sudden change like lightning striking, in my experience. It's a long, difficult process. Trust can be regained, but that, too, is a process. I've said elsewhere in this comm that if he truly is growing and maturing, he's making a genuine attempt to improve his own life and do better, then good for him. I wish him only the best in those endeavors. But before I believe that he's changed, he'll need to actually, you know, change. I don't know him personally, but going by what he posts on the internet -- if he stops being creepy and gross about women, starts showing that he has some concept of and willingness to respect boundaries, stops comparing himself to fictional characters quite so much, then yeah, maybe I'll start to believe he really has changed.

But should that happen, I'm not sure what I'm obligated to do in terms of demonstrating that. Forget that he exists? Forget, or pretend to forget, that he ever did anything bad? Personally apologize to him for posting here? What about the AA bloggers? Are they supposed to stop what they're doing? Delete their blogs? Apologize to him? What's the difference between a "detrimental" consequence and just a plain consequence?

During a really rough period, mental health-wise, I was an asshole -- not abusive, but definitely an asshole. I alienated some friends. That was definitely a detrimental consequence. I've gone to therapy, got a med regimen that works for me, and am genuinely a much healthier, more stable person, but the people I alienated when I was an asshole aren't obligated to be my friends again. They're not even obligated to give me a chance to prove I've grown, that I won't be an asshole to them again if my mental health gets out of balance again. It still makes me sad to think of them. But part of maturing is recognizing that your actions can have consequences for a long time after.

Re: So what would it take?

[(Anonymous)]

Andy is suffering from the consequences of being exposed as the deliberate abuser he still is. There's nothing unfair or wrong with that.

Abbey and many others have been suffering from the consequences of having been abused by Andy. Now THAT is unfair and wrong.

If anything, Andy is getting off extremely lightly considering the true depth and horror of his abuse.

Re: So what would it take?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh, I agree -- that's why I asked the questions I did. I think there's a difference between unfair detrimental consequences and detrimental consequences, with the latter being primarily...just consequences, in my opinion. That example I used from my own life was meant to be an illustration of that -- losing friends during a period of bad mental health sucks, but it's not an unfair consequence. A consequence being "detrimental" doesn't necessarily mean it's unfair/unjust, is what I was getting at -- I should've been clearer.

Re: So what would it take?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh no, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I disagree with you! I was just adding my thoughts to yours on that one particular topic.

I really like the way you put it here: "A consequence being "detrimental" doesn't necessarily mean it's unfair/unjust". That's it, exactly! And honestly, if psychological abuse could be recorded and prosecuted like physical abuse is, Andy would be facing MUCH more "detrimental" consequences - like jail time. So it's in really bad taste in my opinion for him or anyone around him to complain on that matter. He got away scots-free AND he still complains about the very minor consequences he has to face, when several of his victims ended up with PTSD? Fuck his selfish and completely compassion-deprived ass!

Re: So what would it take?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh, good! Rereading my tl;dr I was a little worried my point may have gotten lost in it and it came across a little wishy-washy. I'm a pretty soft-hearted person in a lot of ways, and I'm all for forgiveness and making peace with people who've wronged you if it's something you feel you need to do, but forgiveness and atonement aren't get-out-of-jail-free cards.

I also agree with others that there was sort of a weird vibe to the question. But it's something I've thought about now and then on this subject as well, so no harm done in giving it the benefit of the doubt, at least to start with. If the OP comes back and tries to stir shit, I'll be less earnest, but since they don't seem to have done so far, whatever.