tf_talk | continued Thatfucker discussion

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continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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maybe. but plenty of people have fucked up attitudes regarding trans identity and a lot of people are quick to question the identities of trans people they don't like (disliking Andy is justified of course...). teablogger should've just ignored those asks IMO, but they did a great job dealing with them... guarantee there are plenty of people who follow Andy's antics who have generally shitty attitudes regarding trans identity and its complexities.

even if it is Andy I think by now we all know when to stay focused and not be distracted by this nonsense.

Reminder that Andy DOESN'T identify as trans, and therefore isn't. I mean, isn't this the very "trans fail" TB referenced, that you are condemning? And yet, here you are engaging in it. In just one post you complain about "questioning trans people's identities" when Andy specifically rejects that identity, all while you try to defend his right to do just that... as a trans person. This is baffling, contradictory and makes no sense.

It is absolutely stunning to me that not even people who TRY to agree to this line of thinking can keep straight what to think, or what to say. You inevitably end up engaging in the very things you try to condemn.

I was tempted to get into this discussion-- how identities and terminology can mean different things to different people--- but this is NOT the place. Lets move this to 'gloves off', or better yet stop altogether.

It's already there several times through out the discussion included the most recent comment which may have touched off the rest of this tempest in a teapot.

lol, okay. just fall for the wank then.

Maybe, but honestly no one in this age of Andy awareness blogs has had any issue with Andy's gender identity. Everyone uses proper pronouns, everyone accepts that he's male.

The only time it comes up is usually when Andy brings it up somehow, well placed anon for example. Because it's worked for him in the past to muddy the waters. He keeps returning to it because it keeps working, and when one of his detractors gets caught up in it, whatever message they're right about gets completely covered in tranksfail goo.

For example, Turimel had issues with it, and she's been entirely discredited at this point because of it. Turimel did have some good points, but no one's going to listen to her because she keeps using this bizarre argument against Andy's gender identity. Even I don't suggest buying her book because of it.

Then a bit more recently, someone else who was a vocal detractor against Andy got stuck in the mire of gender identity. People stopped listening to him, even though he himself identified as transgender. (Del something or other, my memory fails me this early before coffee.) Yes, he did say other controversial things, but I really feel it was the transwank that turned most people against him.

TB is now the go to person for Andy awareness. They have a great archive of Andy's blogging from the past and have some insightful posts on his behavior, past and present. They've also managed to avoid all the pitfalls other Andy awareness people have fallen into, so I'm not surprised they've suddenly been targeted by gender identity questions in the hopes that they'll slip up and say something problematic.

Because it's the one thing that works to remove thorns from Andy's side, and he'll keep using it as long as it does.

This. In a nutshell.

no, people turned on delwyn because he was a terrible person carrying on in a terrible way.

I think it's a pretty big call to make saying no one in the AA circles has an issue - none of the known bloggers do, for sure, and not the people who comment regularly here - but who else is watching? all I'm saying is it's naive to assume no one from our team could have any kind of issue when transphobia IS a pervasive and insidious bigotry.

but honestly, I don't think it's worth a huge ongoing discussion because... if it IS Andy, then he's getting the derailing he wants.

Delwyn isn't terrible. It's just that, as a trans man who was a victim of narcissistic abuse, I think it hit way too close for him and he got very emotionally invested in an unhealthy way. I'm glad he's stepped back, though, and I hope he's doing well.

I don't remember Del being involved in transwank. Can someone remind me what happened in regards to this? (Feel free to take this discussion to Gloves Off if needs be.)

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