tf_talk | continued Thatfucker discussion

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continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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It looks like there's a couple of things I need to address, and it's probably best if I get them out of the way early:

1) I'm not interested in over-policing or restricting discussion here. What I am committed to, however, is making sure that the discussions here do not veer into invasive territory wrt to Andy's former and current victims. Discussion of Brittany, in particular, needs to remain sensitive. If we're going to discuss anything regarding Brittany, we need to stick to the facts and refrain from too much speculation. Tragically, Brittany is not here to defend herself or offer her version of events and it's important we remember this.

2) So far there's only one mod -- me -- and I'm not around all the time. I work several afternoons a week and do not have a job where it's practical for me to keep an eye on the community; I can only really have a quick look in on the goings-on here from my phone when I'm on my breaks. Additionally, I live in a part of the world where I'm asleep when many of you are awake.

I've been hesitant to ask for help until now as I wasn't sure if this community would even take off, or how busy it would be. But discussions here have been busy enough that I'd be remiss not to ask for help now. I know I'm not always going to be around to keep an eye on things and it'd be helpful to have at least one other mod here -- preferably one in a different timezone -- to ensure things are running smoothly. It's probably the best course of action rather than sitting back and letting things wankify in my absence.

If anyone here is interested in co-modding, please email me here (anonniemouse26@gmail.com) and we'll go from there. You'll probably need to identify yourself, or at least prove you're Not Andy or someone close to him, for integrity's sake and so that's something you'll need to be okay with. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them here.

http://tf-talk.dreamwidth.org/272.html?thread=58640#cmt58640

I agree, but it's a fine line. For example:

Fact: Brittany wrote a letter accusing her father of abuse.

Fact: This fits with Andy's established pattern of alienating children from their parents by creating or exaggerating memories of abuse, and having them write letters to their parents about it.

Speculation: Brittany's accusations of abuse may be partially or entirely fabricated.

Fact: There is no way to know for sure.

As long as the last fact is kept in mind, I don't think you should ban all discussions that deal with elements of speculation. The result may be that actual facts (like the first three) get lost in the process, and in some ways I think that does Brittany a disservice, because in many ways she's Andy's most unfortunate victim. She will never have the chance to reconnect with her parents.

*first two facts

You're right, it's a very fine line.

I'm going to admit that this will be a tricky area for me to mod as the subject of Brittany is particularly sensitive to me. While I never knew her, I feel for her and her family immensely and have a visceral reaction to Andy's exploitation of her death. It disgusts me. Restricting discussion of her is counterproductive as I feel attention deserves to be drawn to Andy's abuse of both Brittany and her memory, but I'd like for us to remain as respectful as we can when she's the topic of conversation. (FTR, I believe we've done well so far.)

TL;DR - The line here is fine, and I can't promise I'll always know where to draw it. I'm going to try not to intrude on speculation unless it begins to feel pointless, invasive or counterproductive.

/new mod is new and trying really hard :(

I think you're doing a great job. This isn't easy but you seem reasonable and willing to listen and explain your decisions, which is the most important thing when the "right" answer is really up to interpretation.

Thank you, nonnie. <3

when the "right" answer is really up to interpretation

I think that's the first lesson I've learned here. At least while I'm the only mod, I'm going to have to go with my own instincts on things and unfortunately, I won't be able to please everyone.

All you can do is your best. Hang in there!

I agree, too. It's a tough job and so far you've been doing it well. I also agree it's important to treat Brittany with respect.

where is the mod? there has to be limits on our conduct here. surely anyone can see that presuming to interpret this material to the intimacy the above posters have is unethical.

Disagree. If anything, that video Brittany actually has her speaking in her own words about her relationship with Andy, unlike the tumblr posts which everyone is perfectly happy to tear apart and analyze. It's publicly available, and while I agree that Andy probably shouldn't have posted it, he has and it's now part of the public record. I don't think he should have had Brittany running to people about shaman wizards either, but he did, and similarly THAT is also part of the public record. Acknowledging this and thinking critically about it is not "sinking to his level". That's ridiculous.

As to "presuming to interpret their intimacy" or whatever, go back on Andy's tumblr and LJ and you'll see that according to Andy, Brittany was his friend, then his good friend, then his life partner, and eventually his soulmate. The story keeps changing and the fact that it does it critical to understanding the depths to which Andy will sink, including using Brittany's memory against her family's wishes to try to get a trip to New Zealand, and then to get people online to help him with his Wrock project.

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