tf_talk | continued Thatfucker discussion

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continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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Of course, but the offended post seemed to be taking exception to the statement that Brittany seemed "off". That's not speculation; that's an interpretation, and one that's backed up by facts that came to light elsewhere.

Some of the stuff about their relationship is speculation, but frankly, when Andy has been caught lying about Brittany not buying into his shtick and has changed his story about the nature of relationship time and time again, I don't think "speculation" about whether he's telling the truth is uncalled for.

I do agree that we should abstain from stating speculation as facts, but actually, I haven't seen anyone do that.

I've gone back to review the thread and have decided to unfreeze it.

I don't personally feel that the comments there are disrespectful, and seeing as I'm the only mod we have at the moment I'm going to have to go with my gut on this one.

I appreciate this is a difficult job but it's really obvious you're giving into pressure right now rather than really looking at this objectively and caringly.

Brittany is DEAD. And there is a frankly ghoulish and voyeuristic discussion going on about the agony behind her smile, about how "off" she is, about how her emotions are false... none of these things are okay.

That Brittany was abused by Andy is not in question. Testimony by those closest to her - important. Scrutiny and dissection of Andy's claims - vital. Circulation of information about how he abused her/exploits her memory/etc - essential.

But I honestly don't understand how people here can take footage of a dead girl they never met and never spoke to, presume to analyse it and deduce what she was thinking and feeling and make claims to that effect (they all were but the Scientology one obviously so) and not see how grotesque that is.

But I honestly don't understand how people here can take footage of a dead girl they never met and never spoke to

You don't know this. This is an assumption.

presume to analyse it and deduce what she was thinking and feeling and make claims to that effect (they all were but the Scientology one obviously so) and not see how grotesque that is.

Question: do you think Brittany was content to believe that it was up to her to defend innocent children from a horrific death? Do you for one moment imagine this was the only instance of Andy keeping her awake at night with claims it was up to them to avert a terrible disaster?

I'll admit this is "speculation" and "presumption", but unless Brittany was as sociopathic as Andy is (which I don't believe), there's no way her time with him wasn't stressful. There's no way there wasn't "agony" involved. For god's sake, how would you feel if the very lives of children were placed on your shoulders? I don't know if you know this, but she had many little siblings she frequently cared for. To say that she went through hell with Andy isn't disrespectful. If anything, saying she was "off" is an understatement of the emotional torment she must have endured.

A torment which, if you recall, Andy has claimed didn't exist due to her not buying into his bullshit.

The comparison to other manipulated cult victims (including CoS victims) is absolutely on point. Even Abbey has said as much. Really, how much different is there between undead shaman wizards and the spirits of undead aliens? No one would pick this up from the video alone, but in context and taken with everything else we know, it ceases to be frivolous speculation.

Brittany is DEAD. And there is a frankly ghoulish and voyeuristic discussion going on about the agony behind her smile, about how "off" she is, about how her emotions are false... none of these things are okay.

To call this voyeuristic or ghoulish implies that people are taking some kind of perverse pleasure in the matter. I don't see that at all, and frankly, while you may not agree with the nature of the discussion, accusing people of essentially "doing it for kicks" is a pretty sickening accusation.

+100

All of this, wholeheartedly.

Well-said.

Plus a fucking million.

(Andy getting Brittney to stay up all night astrally defending the souls of children reminds me eerily of him getting Abbey to stay up all night helping him with various alters. It's obviously a tried and true tactic with him.)

SA (damn, Brittany, sorry)

Brittany was the victim of someone who had run a cult, and who was repeating his behavior with DAYD. Victims of cults often have this affect. There is a reason for it, and it is that they are victims. Repeating the testimony of someone who was a cult victim (Jason Beghe) in order to explain a common affect seen among cult victims is something I find invaluable.

In the wider world, victims of cults are consistently blamed for their victimization. They're made fun of for what's happening to them, and that expression in particular is mocked all the time. And so they end up feeling they have nowhere to turn, since the world outside is hostile to them. Shining a light on cult patterns, and how their victims end up in similar places mentally, is something I find invaluable, because it increases sympathy for victims. Jason Beghe was the victim of a cult, and he knows what he's talking about. Seeing a parallel between what he says and what happens to other cult victims -- well, I think it's not only natural, but necessary. While we keep pretending these are isolated incidents that only happen to stupid people, nothing will change.

I am seeing a LOT of assumptions as to people's motivations. There may be good reasons not to analyze Brittany in this way, but so far the people objecting are assigning emotions and motivations to others, and then saying those assumed emotions and motivations are bad. Assumption of bad faith is a really huge problem.

OK, is it worse to analyse footage of Brittany talking, or Tumblr posts of Andy saying things Brittany might never have said? She can't speak for herself now, so yeah, it is partly her own evidence, and maybe deserves to be listened to for that alone.

I think this is the right decision. Thanks for all your efforts modding so far!

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