tf_talk | Gloves Off

This is all so stupid. I'm probably going to stop following teablogger over this.

Honestly, I think there is all kinds of room for good-faith discussion and disagreement over how to handle and talk about this stuff. It's sensitive and people are bound to be at loggerheads from time to time.

I personally disagree with the Tea Blogger on their interpretation of what went down here, (I don't think that Meg was attacked/silenced) but I respect them as a person and for all of the work they do regarding the Gordian-knot of Andy's ongoing manipulations. Everyone has to do what they need to in order to keep themselves accountable.

I was REALLY surprised by the that post. I don't know if I'll stop following, but I certainly won't see TB the same way anymore.

The whole thing about how they "don't want to see you the comm shut down, but..." and "this is how they should moderate" is just not right. TB doesn't own this space or discussions of Andy Blake and his followers. They have a very good and well-researched blog, and in THAT space they can control the discourse. Not here.

I took it as face value when I read that AA blogs don't police each other, but not anymore.

NA-

I took it as face value when I read that AA blogs don't police each other, but not anymore.

I haven't participated in any of the talk about Del here (or anywhere), but what got me most about TB's post was that the AA blogs (including TB) have talked before about how they can't and won't police each other. So TB won't call out Del (or other "named" AA blogs) for going overboard or being vicious or anything like that.

But TB will call out a bunch of anons and talk about how this community "should" be moderated? No, sorry, you don't get to have it both ways.

I'm incredibly disappointed in TB. They are entitled to their own beliefs about how conversations about Andy should be conducted, but that post smacks a lot of the very policing they've claimed they're not interested in in the first place. It's a great start to getting us all to turn on one another and rip each other's throats out (because this person or that person isn't criticizing Andy the "right way") and I'm sure Andy wouldn't mind watching that happen at all.

TB is an amazing resource, and I hope they keep doing what they're doing, but unless they either backtrack on that post or start speaking up when other named AA bloggers step over the line, I sure won't be looking at them the same way anymore either.

The only part of your post I will pick at is this bit "TB will call out a bunch of anons" - I really don't even think it is a bunch of anons! I think TB had a problem with a few comments, made by an unknown but not terribly large number of anons. Impossible to tell exactly on an anon meme.

I think TB got it wrong on a couple of fronts, but tarring everyone in a large community with the same brush ruffles my feathers particularly. (Tar + feathers = mixed metaphor, or perfect metaphor? Did it accidentally, leaving it on purpose.) I know they don't like to be lumped in indiscriminately with "Andy Awareness" bloggers as if they are one entity.

This, and I say this as an anon who wanted Meg to feel welcomed here and said so.

AYRT

I really don't even think it is a bunch of anons!
That's a good point. Without being a mod, there's no way to know for sure how many people were in those threads and there's something wrong with painting a whole community with one brush. (Perfect metaphor, btw! :)

NAYRT I was most horrified by TB's casual "I would give an awful lot to have the IPs on all of those comments" remark. Right, like that's not silencing at all, wishing you could track people on an anon meme.

Especially because some people here are former victims of Andy who REALLY don't want to be tracked. Triggering shit right there.

She's really stepping out of line, what the hell happened?

She's upset Meg isn't reading or posting here anymore. Realistically though, it was only a matter of time until something someone said ticked Meg off and caused her to tell everyone to fuck off again, as she has many times in the past. Anyone can comment here for any reason, and there's really no way to control people being snarky, or just plain disagreeing with her interpretation of events.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-05 00:56 (UTC) - Expand

I want to apologize for this. That remark was completely inappropriate and I should never have made it. The reason that I said it (and I offer this as an explanation, not an excuse) was that I was angry and wondered at the time whether any of the anons in my previous paragraph were Andy or friends of his. It was incredibly fucked up and I'm sorry.

TB

This is what I assumed you meant. While it's kind of a strange comment out of context, I think it's understandable.

Thank you. I can't speak for everyone here, but as a former abuse victim who was triggered by the thought of being tracked like that, I appreciate the apology and knowing what you really meant by it.

You called out and picked apart my comment, only showed part of it out of context, and made me feel like a piece of shit. I shouldn't have to declare myself an abuse victim in every post just to say something to another victim. You want my IP address so you can ruin my life? Why would you do this? Thanks for blaming other people that could be victims of abuse for an abusers tactics. I should send you my therapist bill. But you'd probably just publish it.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-05-05 10:46 (UTC) - Expand

I can confirm that there were no suspicious IPs involved in the DM or meg threads. In the future anyone is welcome to ask directly or send a PM to one of the mods if they aren't certain we've checked. NO ACTUAL IP ADDRESSES OR LOCATION DETAILS WILL EVER BE SHARED WITH NON-MODERATORS.

So TB won't call out Del (or other "named" AA blogs) for going overboard or being vicious or anything like that.

TB and the others DID call Del out. Once. This calling out is the entire reason Del stopped posting, precisely because he was working under the mutually agreed-upon rule that none of them would call another out. When it happened, he left the scene. So don't go saying they didn't do it.

+1

First delwynmarch, now teablogger... Who's next?

How many AA bloggers are you going to turn against and call out simply because they won't act to your exact specifications? And most importantly: can't you see you're doing Andy's job here? While you're so busy criticizing what the people who are criticizing him are doing, you're not keeping focused on who the topic of this place is supposed to be.

I think this comment is kinda disingenuous: the anon is reacting to TB talking about them; maybe not specifically them individually, but that's what you get when you use a broad brushstroke to tar an entire comm.

One thing's a reaction to someone approaching the topic of Andy in a way they feel is destructive.

The other is a reaction to someone telling all of us in this comm, including those of us who're abuse survivors, and including those of us who're survivors of andy, that we're silencing victims of abuse because we disagreed with Meg about Andy's actions.

One of these things is not like the other.

AYRT

the anon is reacting to TB talking about them; maybe not specifically them individually

This is also how I meant my comment to be taken: not as commentary on that particular comment, but on the comm's general reaction to TB's post. A few anons have only said they might unfollow him, but several others have gone much further. The overall result, because anons cannot be differentiated, was a calling out.

Saying you're not going to follow someone is hardly a call out.

Look, I think people on both sides of this are overreacting, but claiming that we can't disagree or we're doing Andy's bidding is kind of ridiculous. There are dozens of thorny issues dealt with here. Disagreements and misunderstandings will happen.

If you have something new or insightful to offer about Andy instead of AA bloggers, post it and be the change and all that.

AYRT

When the disagreements lead to openly wishing that some voices who are strongly speaking against Andy would shut up either partially or completely, then I'd argue that the only person these disagreements benefit is Andy.

This goes for BOTH teablogger&Abbey for calling TF-Talk out, and for TF-Talk for calling TB out in return. I can't suggest strongly enough that you all stop policing each other and focus on spending your limited time and energy on calling Andy out instead.

For example: what about calling him out for innocently reblogging this post: http://andythanfiction.tumblr.com/post/118163913428/official-acedawg-official-acedawg-okay-theres-a , when he's both a well-known and self-confessed sexual abuser, and when he's never apologized to Diamond for shaming her so badly into losing her virginity that she tried to get herself raped? She didn't want to get involved in sexual things, he didn't respect that: this post is about people like him, and he's once again trying to whitewash his history and character.

There's no need to go back years or months to find problematic stuff Andy posted: every week, he posts or reblogs several things which are obvious attempts at presenting himself as something he's not. He very often reblogs things which speak out against people like him, giving the impression that he's not who and what he is, and a simple comment on TF-Talk about how "he says this, but he did that" would be far more useful than endless discussions about whatever DM or TB or Abbey may have said or done. (Before you ask: I have my reasons for not making said comments myself.)

Just my two cents, for what they are worth.

+1

I can't suggest strongly enough that you all stop policing each other and focus on spending your limited time and energy on calling Andy out instead.

I don't agree that disagreement in and of itself constitutes policing. I also don't agree that comments such as, "I may unfollow person x" are policing. That is a personal statement that demands absolutely nothing of the person who is unfollowed.

I have my reasons for not making said comments myself.

I would assume people also have their reasons for making the comments that they do.

I agree that it would best if the focus remained on Andy. Ultimately, that's what we're all here for. But we deal with very sensitive and controversial issues. Discussions have to be had about how to approach them, and that will sometimes lead to disagreement. Sometimes people will get angry or hurt. People fuck up, too. It's just the nature of the beast.

On the bright side, this sometimes leads to GOOD things, like the Gloves Off post. It was the product of a heated conversation/argument. The result is we now have a place to post where sensitive issues can be discussed almost completely free of accusations of triggering people/silencing posts about "doing it wrong" and the like. No other place that I know of like that exists, and Abbey has even said that it has given her a place to discuss things she would not otherwise be comfortable talking about.