tf_talk | continued Thatfucker discussion

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continued Thatfucker discussion

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

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I do think his parents are decent enough that they wouldn't kick the poor girl out without a place to go or any resources. They may enable him but I can't imagine they'd be that cruel.

Oh no, I mean how she would fair emotionally. WJ said she blames herself for anything that goes wrong between her and Andy, and that she's still heavily codependent on him.

On her post about sexually harassing Andrew, she seemed to credit Andrew with getting her into therapy, making friends, and generally turning her into a better person. I'm not sure how she'll react to losing her "savior".

I don't want to cross a line in speculating about an ongoing situation, so mod, feel free to freeze or delete, but this is the first I've heard about Meg being in therapy. I wonder if that's actual therapy with a licensed professional, or if it's the same sort of "therapy" Andy & this alters subjected previous victims to. I don't know Meg's financial situation, but therapy is expensive and Andy giving someone a lifeline to the real world seems dubious. I hope I'm wrong, for her sake.

I'm going to say this as someone with serious mental illnesses. If Andy hurts anyone else, it is at this point starting to be on his parents heads. They are letting him do this shit. They are letting him use their house to hurt people. At this point he needs to be somewhere with constant supervision WHETHER OR NOT HE IS REALLY MENTALLY ILL. His parents are being massive irresponsible and sooner or later they are going to be in court over it.

+1

Obviously he's an adult making his own terrible choices, but they're enabling him by allowing him to use their home to lure in and abuse people. I'm sure they feel helpless, as he does damage whether he's living with them or not and they obviously feel like this is somehow better than the alternative, but they are actively taking on that responsibility and liability.

Genuine question: what else would you suggest they do?

I mean at least this way they know where he is and can a least try to intervene.

NAYRT

Ultimately, if you are a homeowner you are responsible for what you allow to go on in your home. It's not just that they're providing him with unmonitored internet access, they're allowing him to host mini-conventions there and actually have one of his victims living in their home right now! This is stuff that they've said yes to.

nayrt

Well, not have let Meg move in for starters.

Also, I'm assuming they pay for his internet connection/phone bill, since he doesn't seem to have any real income of his own. They should stop that, or at least put heavy restrictions on its usage.

They really ought to install keyloggers on all his devices. They really don't seem to monitor or intervene AT ALL.

Even if they just monitored his tumblr that would be something. It's not like his accounts aren't known and/or findable, and yet it seems like he has zero accountability regarding what he posts online based on the number of baldfaced lies about his situation he gets away with.

• not allow Meg to move in
• not allow him to schedule nude photoshoots and body-painting sessions
• not allow him to host role playing parties (this is a big one given his history with the line between fandom and reality)
• generally supervise him! monitor what he's posting online! limit his internet usage, even - especially given that sleep deprivation via all-night skype parties is a manipulation tactic he's known for.

You're forgetting that he's lying and manipulating constantly. Not likely he'd frame any of those things to his parents as what they really are. I imagine he's constantly bullshitting and that they never really know what he's up to.

Uh, but they should be aware that he lies and bullshits. Stop giving them a pass at enabling him.

I suggest they have him placed somewhere would he can be supervised? Like holy shit why are you being fucking dense. If he is really so mentally ill that he cannot help but do this things and cannot tell reality from fiction and cannot help but abuse people and is really under medical care -- they could have him declared unable to make decisions for himself and have him placed in a care facility that can do things like cut off his internet if he starts lying and trying to hurt people.

Or since you know he's probably a manipulative asshole that talks up having mental illness to get out of things and his parents know he has issues, they could stop letting him have teenagers and vulnerable young people over to role-play and pretend to be other people. They could stop enabling him. They could see that he isn't changed or wanting to change and try to get him real treatment?

DA

I can say from personal experience that that first option is pretty much impossible in the US these days. There really isn't anywhere that they can have him committed to for any length of time, even given their decent financial situation. Which is why our prisons/jails are the largest residential providers of mental health services these days.

I do agree with your second paragraph though.

And yet parents do it all the time.

This is getting pretty close to the asshole line.

If Andy hurts anyone else, it will be Andy's fault. By all accounts his parents are doing the best they can under very trying circumstances. I'd say they're largely unaware of his activities (particularly those that are online) and are very likely in a fuckload of denial, so I have nothing but sympathy for them.

Do I think they might need to kick Andy out and let things take their course? Yes. Are they enabling him? Probably. But as his parents it's impossible for them to see things objectively and it's more than likely that they, too, are his victims.

They're housing their disturbed adult child because they probably don't know what else to do, but at the end of the day, all of the responsibility for Andy's actions is on Andy.

I agree with you on this, but I do think there's a grey area here that depends on factors we can't really verify from our internet armchairs.

If Andy has a mental illness that they are aware of, then his parents do have a responsibility to help him get treatment and help him avoid causing harm to himself/others to the extent that they are able. He lives in their home and they have the same responsibility in that circumstance that anyone offering living space to a disabled person has.

Yeah. His parents are his victims too, and the fact he's their child has to make it that much harder to believe the worst of him.

I actually don't think they should kick him out. I think he can hurt people a lot more if he's not living under their roof, because he can isolate people more that way. Also, he's their kid, and whatever else he is, he has proven himself incapable of living any kind of normal life. Kick him out to live on the streets? No, I don't think any parent should do that.

I'm incredibly uncomfortable with them allowing Meg to move in, but again, I think he's probably manipulating the hell out of them.

It's horrible to think, though, that these two (by all accounts) very nice people are still dealing with their adult child's constant drama and manipulations at whatever age they are now. So for their sake? Kick him out; he's an adult, and they shouldn't have to wear a lifetime of his bad decisions. But for the greater good? Yeah. Probably not the best idea to have him out there in the community growing his latest cult.

(frozen comment) (no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2015-04-13 21:26 (UTC) - Expand

Wow, yeah not what I said at fucking all asshole. Also his parents have to fucking take responsibility too. And let me tell you AGAIN I HAVE SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS as in I HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED HEAVILY IN THE PAST FOR MY AND OTHERS SAFETY. Because that is what you FUCKING DO if your even adult child is a fucking danger to themselves and others.

Andy's actions are his fucking own and his own responsibility, but his parents could be at the very least not letting him have larps and sometimes minors in their home with him.

Yeah, this is going to have to end here as it's become pointless and is devolving into name-calling. Try talking about it later when everyone has cooled off.

We need to tread carefully here.

- Andy's actions will always be on Andy.

- We know very little about what goes on inside that home and it's worth pointing out, as someone did below, that Andy's parents are also very likely Andy's victims.

I don't have an issue with discussion/speculation on this matter but statements like "they are letting him use their house to hurt people" are not really appropriate. Without knowing anything about the situation, we need to be careful we don't frame speculations like this as fact.

It's possible Andy's parents are being lied to and mislead by not just Andy but those who are under his influence, so what looks like negligence may be something else entirely.

I said below but meant upthread. ಥ_ಥ

Yeah fucking sorry for giving my point of view as someone whose parents did fucking step in. Can't say his parents should do shit because that's ~blaming them~ and somehow letting him off the fucking hook. It's fucking bullshit.

And I'm sorry the law won't care if Andy was an adult if he hurts someone under their roof and gets taken to court for it. They need to protect him, protect themselves, and protect others from becoming victims of him.

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