tf_talk | Continued Discussion (Post 2)

[name redacted] I’m not going to change my statement.

He may not have been a minor (the cut off on that changes from place to place), but he was a teenager. And Abbey (nice to meet you) you were not, correct? You were an adult by every legal definition.

And you met this kid online, and you believed him when he told you that he was speaking to elves?

So... how did he wield such power over you, that you were the sole victim and he the sole abuser, there?

I’m not denying Andy was behaving in a manner that was clearly toxic to himself and everyone around him. He’s not denying that, either.

But why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you say, “Honey, elves aren’t real and you can’t talk to Dead movie stars”?

Why would you put your trust in someone who told you they are and he could? Especially a teenager?? I mean... the baseline of teenagers is “batshit crazy” to begin with.

Yeah, Andy was a walking disaster area. But, by all accounts, you contributed to that. And yet all I see is you and Molly and “tea blogger” putting all the blame on a mentally ill teenager who, instead of getting the help and boundaries and support he needed, was enabled and encouraged by you. And then handed the sole blame for the fallout.

It seems to me that the main reason Andy has been cast as the villain in all this is that you got your story out first. And he’s bought into it, too. He thinks it was all his fault, too.

But I think you are a lot more responsible than you’re acknowledging, and I think this whole thing has gone on too long, and has been built on shadows of shadows of itself.

Molly has reported Andy doing nothing more than making her feel uncomfortable and not cleaning up after himself. Which makes him a crappy houseguest, but does not make him a sociopath. But because you guys have built an entire subculture around vilifying him, suddenly everything he does is ramped up to “dangerous”. And anyone who likes him or defends him has been “brainwashed”.

Which is kind of insulting, btw. Just because you chose to follow his mentally ill fantasy paths doesn’t mean I would. Or Chris would. Or Meg would. Most adults know the difference between reality and fantasy.

Andy hasn’t brainwashed me. I don’t even know him. But he told me his story. And I read the accounts from news articles and from the teablogger’s blog. And they all draw a pretty strange picture.

Mostly what I see is a bunch of fandom geeks (and, Hey, I’m one, too) getting waaaay too wrapped up in their fandoms, and deciding it would be more fun to pretend that fiction is real than grow up. And all you lost boys chose Andy as your Peter Pan and followed him to Neverland.

And maybe he did lead the way. But you chose to follow him. And you were the adult. And he was the kid.

Now he’s trying to rebuild his life, in a world where people don’t believe in elves. He’s not telling anyone he has super powers. He’s not telling anyone he can communicate with other dimensions. He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!). He’s just trying to get a job and live his life.
Leave him alone to do it, please.

Christ, what an asshole.

I know others will dismantle the victim blaming and targeted harassment of KQ, but I have to call out this blatant lie in particular: Molly has reported Andy doing nothing more than making her feel uncomfortable and not cleaning up after himself.

In that thread alone many people report that:

• Andy exhibited abusive behavior toward many people, trans and fat folks especially.
• Andy lied to Molly about his background (summing it up as "internet drama" from his teen years)
• Andy lied to Molly's friends about whether he'd lived in LA before
• Andy lied to Molly and her friends about his purpose for being in LA (claimed he'd moved for a job that he did not have)
• Andy manipulated Molly into letting him remain in her home weeks longer than agreed (and was telling other people that he planned to stay out the season if not the year, so he was laying the groundwork for that week-long stay to turn into months)

So...boiling all of that down into "she felt uncomfortable and he didn't clean up after himself" is incredibly disingenuous. Wow.

Not only does this guy ignore plainly stated facts that Abbey has put forward (how it was never "I talk to elves" but more leading you to "guess" that he talks to elves, for example), but he was not a kid. He was nineteen. He was also "an adult by every legal definition."

Since he was 19 in 2002 when Abbey first met him in person (per Teablogger's timeline), that means he was 24 when he pulled the "going to Canada" thing in 2007. He was certainly not a child then.

He was 27 in 2010 when he channeled in front of Brittany. By no stretch of the imagination can he claim that Brittany was "enabling a mentally ill teenager" given that he was almost 30.

"He’s not trying to run massive events he has no qualifications to do (and who spends $15K of their own money without a contract?? Seriously, people!!)."

I know facts aren't this guy's strong suit, but we literally JUST HAD Andy trying to throw a big Critical Role-themed gourmet feast despite claiming not knowing how to boil an egg.

I have the same feeling as I do when politicians publicly tell bald faced lies and expects everyone to believe them because THEY SAY SO. How does anyone believe their gaslighting?

When I was 18 I believed an anime dog demon was my true love and we were meant to be together. The adults who loved me found out and got me help.They did not tell me I was special and then help me fake my death. They did not smuggle me across the country and use me as the figurehead of a cult. They sure as hell didn't place the actions of an adult on my childish behavior. Y'all relationship was toxic but it was mutually toxic. Take some responsibility, get some therapy, and live your life.

I suppose it's pointless to tell this person that Abbey has had therapy, assumed full responsibility for her own actions, and has a wonderful life?

These people are vile. Also, this is literally the first time I've ever seen the phrase "use me as the figurehead of a cult," as though cult LEADERS are the real victims, forced into their role by their followers. Amazing.

Oh god, yeah, what a fucked up turn of phrase.

It's been a few years since I read 'Helter Skelter', the book about the Manson Family murders written by the prosecutor in the case, but iirc a lot of the defense on Manson's side was the same thing. A lot of implications that he wasn't REALLY a cult leader, his followers had made him a cult leader, he had absolutely NOTHING to do with any of their actions, etc etc

(Not saying that his followers who committed the murders are blameless, of course - just that people try to downplay Manson's control over them.)

+1
The "live your life" is so offensive and shuts down anyone willing to talk about past abuse.

every now and then you come across someone about whom you just think "gee,he world will be a better place when you die".

This person can get fucked

Continued Discussion (Post 2)

Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!

Re: Holy victim blaming, Batman!