tf_talk | Continued Discussion (Post 2)

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This, at least as it's phrased here, is a really shitty myth that needs to go away.

The reason that trans men end up looking much older after they go on testosterone isn't because testosterone ages them prematurely but because it makes them look like other men their age. Pre-T and in the early stages of T, trans men who pass tend to be read as much younger than they actually are because they don't have the physical markers of male puberty that people expect from adult men. Once they've been on testosterone for some time, they start to "catch up" to what people expect men of their actual age to look like. It doesn't make them look way older than cis men of the same age. HRT for trans men isn't some weird mystery aging compound. It's the same stuff cis guys have, aiming for the same levels as cis guys have. Any aging effect it has applies equally to cis men with normal testosterone levels. I mean, this is all averages, there are always opposite ends on a bell curve, but overall that's how it works.

There's this thing I keep seeing where people spread incorrect information about what transition for trans men involves and all of the ~horrible, no good, very bad~ things it will do to your body, and this is one of the things that keeps coming up. It's bullshit because it's a total misrepresentation of what's actually involved physically, and it's bullshit because it draws on misogynistic fearmongering about how looking old will ruin a "woman"'s life in order to try to scare people out of transitioning. And then it gets passed around by people who don't know any better and people treat it as gospel truth.

Andy looks older than he is because he smokes and drinks and that's what has an aging effect, not the testosterone.

You're reading way too much into this comment. They only said t has an aging effect - which it does - not that it ages trans men prematurely or that it ages trans men differently (appearance-wise) than it does cis men.

If you say that T is the reason for Andy looking older than he is then that inherently is saying that T is aging him prematurely compared to other men (presumably cis.). It's ridiculous to say that Andy having aged poorly is all or even primarily to do with being on testosterone when what's being talked about is that he has aged poorly for a man. His appearance is that of a man who is older than Andy actually is. Blaming testosterone for that is nonsensical because the vast majority of the men his age who do look their actual age would have similar testosterone levels too. Like... there is no way to say "This guy looks older than his age because T often has an aging effect" that doesn't imply that him being on T has aged him differently than other men age, because it first requires using other men as an average by which to judge what any age "looks like" on a man.

"If you say that T is the reason for Andy looking older than he is then that inherently is saying that T is aging him prematurely compared to other men (presumably cis.)."

No, it's not that simple. Andy's smoked for years, but before t he always looked younger than cis men his age. The reason for that is he never developed any secondary male sexual characteristics. This off-set any effect the smoking might have had on his appearance in regard to his age.

Adding t to the mix eliminated the "hasn't gone through male puberty yet" look. When you combine that with all the unhealthy shit he does, the result is what we see today - a guy who looks older than his actual age.

Put another way: If he'd never gone on t, Andy would almost certainly still look much younger than he is, DESPITE his smoking and drinking. The smoking/drinking remains constant; t is the factor that varies. Ergo, t is variable responsible for the recent striking change in his appearance.

In mathematical terms:

No T:

(No t = -10 to -13 years) + (smoking = +5 years) + Andy's actual age = -5 to -8 years off Andy's actual age

With T:

(t = 0, no difference from a cis man) + (smoking = +5) + Andy's actual age = +5 years to Andy's actual age

Or to put it another way, Andy is in his mid-30s (35) and looks like a man in his early 40s including the hair dying which is making his hair look brittle and old.

I can see both sides of this. The HRT negative side-effects warnings can get a bit er, hysterical and are worth challenging where they pop up. But in this case it's fair to say dude went from looking younger due to lack of hormones then caught up to himself...Then overshot a little due to IDK, lifestyle or genetics or karma.

Fwiw: I'm the same age as Andy and I have to say from a subjective pov as a young looking pasty white drunkard with a terrible lifestyle the last few years have really caught up with me. The 30s can really do a number on those of us who cheated the aging process in our 20s for whatever reason. Ageing doesnt alway progress at a steady rate.

That said, I expect he'll manage to transition from wunderkind to grizzled sage even if it means jumping into a new fresh community. :(

And OT...but, anon, I liked your mathematical rendering of your point.
(1')Anon enjoys all posts with logical truths.
(2')This post contains logical truths.
(3')Therefore, anon enjoyed this post.

Didn't this topic get closed already?

Continued Discussion (Post 2)

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging

Re: Andy's aging (MODS)