I'm reading Teablogger's latest update, and boggling. I am not criticizing the people who fell for/are falling for Andy in this (well, most of them), but looking at what he's done recently, I don't understand how he can have so many people who are utterly devoted to and admiring of him when he:
1) Is blatantly sexist, racist, and transphobic. Sexually harasses people, also blatantly. Is just plain rude all the time. 2) Is incompetent, probably purposefully. 3) Is massively offputting to almost everyone generally, including on a physical basis because he doesn't take care of his hygiene. 4) Lies transparently and stupidly. 5) Requires everyone else to clean up after him, both literally and figuratively.
It's not just about people not having been warned about him. He's a huge pile of serious negatives -- what are the positives? I saw in the past what some of the positives could have been, even if they weren't positives for me, but now?
So I’m rewatching the second season of American Crime Story about Andrew Cunanan and the Andy vibes are off the fucking charts. It’s the same predicament you mention, he’s extremely offputting in a way you can’t quite verbalize. His ingratiating behavior reads as desperation and probably eighty percent of his interactions are people just kind of tolerating until they can run away.”Uh huh, that’s cool…how fun! I’ve gotta run, bye!!”
However, for the people Andy ensnares, that ingratiation speaks to them in some form or another. Either genuinely, because they don’t see that he’s just a chameleon telling people what they want to hear or what he thinks they want to hear (all the while painting himself as the most interesting, intelligent, well versed individual in whatever situation he’s describing) or maybe out of some sort of misguided pity. Like an “aw, you look like you need a win, I’ll listen to you and build you up a little bit” sort of deal.
Man, this is such an interesting comparison! IMO the main difference is their chosen social scenes. Cunanan’s whole thing was that he wanted to be part of the true social elite; he was interested in being around wealthy older businessmen, celebrities, famous or successful people, and was immersed in this HIGHLY status-conscious section of gay male 90s society. A lot of people in that milieu would have been very savvy and used to spotting and avoiding social climbers/scammers/hangers-on, and saw him for what he was pretty quickly. (Although it’s worth recalling that many people believed his stories and others who didn’t nonetheless put up with him, even knowing there was something weird going on with him, because he had status in their scene and appeared to have had a lot of money to throw around.)
Andy has always operated more on the fringes of society and particularly within fannish circles. He’s always tried to portray himself as the Cool Guy, but in a way that really only seems cool to people in those circles, and he could get away with his more offputting qualities because the people he was dealing with either weren’t equipped to spot them or would have accepted them as quirks (cf the Geek Social Fallacies, which I truly think explain how he got away with like 70% of what he did). He’s always made a point of surrounding himself with young people with minimal life experience, vulnerable people and people who are very tolerant of apparent weirdness. Big fish small pond.
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(Anonymous) 2024-04-11 04:07 am (UTC)(link)1) Is blatantly sexist, racist, and transphobic. Sexually harasses people, also blatantly. Is just plain rude all the time.
2) Is incompetent, probably purposefully.
3) Is massively offputting to almost everyone generally, including on a physical basis because he doesn't take care of his hygiene.
4) Lies transparently and stupidly.
5) Requires everyone else to clean up after him, both literally and figuratively.
It's not just about people not having been warned about him. He's a huge pile of serious negatives -- what are the positives? I saw in the past what some of the positives could have been, even if they weren't positives for me, but now?
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(Anonymous) 2024-04-13 09:47 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2024-04-27 11:16 am (UTC)(link)However, for the people Andy ensnares, that ingratiation speaks to them in some form or another.
Either genuinely, because they don’t see that he’s just a chameleon telling people what they want to hear or what he thinks they want to hear (all the while painting himself as the most interesting, intelligent, well versed individual in whatever situation he’s describing) or maybe out of some sort of misguided pity. Like an “aw, you look like you need a win, I’ll listen to you and build you up a little bit” sort of deal.
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(Anonymous) 2024-07-05 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)Andy has always operated more on the fringes of society and particularly within fannish circles. He’s always tried to portray himself as the Cool Guy, but in a way that really only seems cool to people in those circles, and he could get away with his more offputting qualities because the people he was dealing with either weren’t equipped to spot them or would have accepted them as quirks (cf the Geek Social Fallacies, which I truly think explain how he got away with like 70% of what he did). He’s always made a point of surrounding himself with young people with minimal life experience, vulnerable people and people who are very tolerant of apparent weirdness. Big fish small pond.