continued Thatfucker discussion

[anonniemouse]

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't he say that about luvscharlie too? It seems to be his standard way of denigrating women who have found him out -- they fell in love with him, he rejected them, now he's worried they'll boil his bunny, etc. etc. (And he repeatedly tried to frame Abbey as the vindictive ex.)

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't he do that (either the vindictive ex or the unrequited, unwanted admirer) with Turimel? I know he did it wit Versaphile (the bitter ex part anyway)

[(Anonymous)]

He tried to say it about Jeanine, too. The second comment here? That was about her. http://carlanime.tumblr.com/post/89055364755/andy-commenting-on-abbey-andy-commenting-on

[(Anonymous)]

Oh holy shit, that first comment

[(Anonymous)]

What's the background on this? Who is he talking to, and how long ago was it? The way he throws Abbey under the bus here and lies through his teeth in order to make it appear that SHE took advantage of him is just putrid. Then again it's hardly the first time he's spread malicious bullshit about her as a means of petty revenge for leaving him.

[(Anonymous)]

He's talking to me (Carlanime) via facebook, and I think the date is on the screencap.

[(Anonymous)]

How do you know Andy?

[(Anonymous)]

Ha. Oh God, anon.

The shortest explanation I can give you is that once, a long time ago, I made a post on LJ about Andy. In retrospect, it's obvious he saw some kind of potential advantage to getting me onside. He contacted me (as did a couple of convenient anons and a friend of his), and eventually we became "online friends" (and also sometimes exchanged mail).

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for explaining!

Wow, that must have been interesting. If you don't mind me asking, at what point did you stop that friendship? Like was it something he said/did to you, or did you simply find out about his past?

No pressure at all to answer and I don't mean to pry, I'm just curious.

[(Anonymous)]

No worries, anon, you're not prying. It's just slightly difficult to answer in a way that makes sense.

I knew about his past going in, sort of. I knew most of the well-known, wanked about parts. When I made my LJ post (which I should link you to; it probably makes me look like an idiot, but that's okay) Abbey and Jeanine had begun the process of talking to each other, and I felt sorry for Andy. (Wow. It looks epically dumb written out.)

It's hard to answer the "at what point I stopped the friendship" part, because while there is one obvious point when I stopped contacting him (after Abbey posted about a bodyshaming thing he used to put her through), it's not as though I hate him now or anything. I just can't enjoy his "company" (or whatever the word is when it's internet-and-mail) the way I used to.

And on the other side, of course, I don't know if he ever actually felt I was a friend, or if I was just a convenient mouthpiece.

[(Anonymous)]

Here's the link to my LJ post, anon. http://necromommycon.livejournal.com/23757.html

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Thanks for the additional information!

I read your LJ post and I'm not at all surprised Andy came scuttling out of the woodwork to befriend you.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, in retrospect I can see why, too. It was an ill-advised post in many ways.
But at the time my concern was that I should say something (unflocked) because I didn't want to be mentally re-assessing Andy behind the scenes when I'd been supporting Turimel in public. I didn't want to feel like I was sneakily thinking more kindly of him.
The last thing I expected was that he, Cfc, and some anons would pop up in my inbox.

[(Anonymous)]

The first comment. w o w

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for sharing!

[(Anonymous)]

What an ass. You know, if Turimel was THAT concerned about hiding these bisexual or lesbian tendencies Andy seems to be implying she has, I doubt she'd have been happy to plaster the fact that she considered him a woman everywhere.

While I don't approve of Turimel misgendering Andy when it became apparent he was really trans, her initial posts on the subject came out long before Andy ever claimed a trans identity. His male identity at that time was supposedly the duplicate soul of Elijah Wood (which was very obviously a load of bullshit) and ran concurrent with him pretending to be dozens of other imaginary people. I can totally understand why she didn't take that seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, especially when all the "knowledge" Andy had about the film industry was at first secretly from channeling/being Elijah Wood (and to this day he still slips in little things like "I knew things there was no way for me to know," blahblah).

[(Anonymous)]

He STILL DOESN'T claim trans identity. Like he always swears up and down he is not trans and he is 100% straight cis male. Which is...he knows his past is public record -- does he think he's still going to I don't even know how to put this, ugh talking about him is frustrating because one slip and you are accessed of being a transphobe. But just Andy you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You can not get protection from deadnaming and everything else and throw other trans people under the bus.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

That's what always gets me re: discussing Andy's trans identity--he doesn't actually HAVE one. He's "a straight cismale" according to him, and calling him a transman is "misgendering" him. Which, wtf?

I think when a person uses multiple identities to con and abuse people, they have lost their right to disconnect themselves from their past identities, no matter what. It's not a malicious transphobic act to point out that Andy was Amy Player and that Amy Player perpetrated fraud and abuse on other people; it's a public service.

Cis Andy

[(Anonymous)]

He's "a straight cismale" according to him, and calling him a transman is "misgendering" him. Which, wtf?

It's taking advantage of the (normally admirable) rule on tumblr to accept people's identities. Blake has always been fond of making every conversation about what he FEELS, rather than what he IS or DOES. Feelings he can constantly change and claim were misinterpreted; facts are much harder. So if he IDENTIFIES and FEELS cis, then YOU'RE the transphobe for doing anything other than smiling and nodding!

It's a rhetorical advice intended to stop people with social justice leanings from thinking critically; it lets him define the discussion. That argument wouldn't work on your classic transphobe for a hot second, because they wouldn't CARE.

It IS very hard to discuss this in a way without slipping up--which I think is what he intends, because it makes a great distraction and shuts down discussion. Part of how I ended up on the fringe of all this was because I felt as a trans person that I'd be more likely to actually be able to SAY it without getting immediately dismissed as a cis transphobe.

--LBL

Re: Cis Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Bless this post.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

What's worse is that Andy is perfectly happy to criticize the identification of other people on the grounds that it doesn't make sense, or that "words mean things" (which is my position as well, for full disclosure). It's a concept he rejects only when it comes to himself, or when he's lecturing other people on the ethics of identification.

For example:

http://andythanfiction.tumblr.com/post/113694400557/sometimes-i-hear-these-guys-in-church-circles-who

Sometimes I hear these guys in church circles who are like “No, I’m totally proof that homosexuality isn’t really this thing you’re stuck with from birth and you can fix it with prayer! See, I was doing ok for a while and I liked and dated girls in high school, but I also used to struggle with gay impulses and attractions, so I prayed really hard and then I met my wife, whom I genuinely love and am genuinely attracted to sexually and we have all this hot sex and the gay attraction thing sometimes flares up a little but I never am even tempted to act on it because I’m so in love and faithful” and they’re so sincere and they really mean it and they really love their wives and I just want to beat my head into the wall until the dents spell out B-I-S-E-X-U-A-L-I-T-Y

The thing you just proved exists is the exact thing you’re completely erasing to try to prove a completely different thing that does exist doesn’t exist. It’s like holding up a fluffy white cat and insisting that this baby Yeti proves that climate change is a hoax. Only with so much more awful.

Can you imagine how he would react if someone were to post something like this?

Sometimes I hear this guy on tumblr who's like "I'm totally proof that you can be cis even though your current gender identity is at odds with your gender assigned at birth!" I just want to beat my head into the wall until the dents spell out T-R-A-N-S-S-E-X-U-A-L-I-T-Y

This thing you are saying you are is the antithesis of what you just described. *Funny anecdotes about this person being stupid involving cats and yetis* So much awful!

Having previously identified as bisexual, lesbian and trans, and now rejecting a trans identity because of his discomfort with it, I don't know the fuck he doesn't understand that people may reject certain labels out of shame, denial, or cultural/religious pressure. Apparently when Andy does it, it's decision that must be honored and walked on eggshells about at all times. When other people do it, it's grounds for mockery and is bang-your-head-into-the-wall stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

TBH, the only reason why I gave him the courtesy of using his preferred pronouns way back when the first reveal of his identity happened wasn't because I wanted to respect his wishes, but because I know a lot of trans people feel really strongly about respecting everyone's chosen pronouns. if he was in a vacuum? I'd say fuck him and his wishes, given that he never respect other people's wishes about their self identification.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, thank you. This disgusting hypocrisy undermines any sympathy I have for his legitimate struggles with his identity.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually do get why Turimel is so stuck on the Amy/female thing, and I'm pretty much 100% sure she's not actually transphobic (based on when I talked to her about it years ago, at least, so I concede it's been a while). I don't quite agree with her decision to stick with that but I get it.

Turimel knew "Jordan" was biologically female on meeting him, but figured he was a young trans guy presenting as male and trying to live as a man, and did respect that. There was that BS about whatever health condition made him slighter/feminine/not able to grow facial hair, and she just kind of gave him the benefit of doubt. Because at that stage all this crazy shit had not happened.

Then it became identity fraud. So basically Turimel's acceptance of Jordan's trans identity (one he still hasn't claimed, because of course he has always been a man and never ever done anything female ever) became a big part of the arsenal he used to cheat her out of a lot of money and her credit rating. I think that maintaining that little bit of power, by not acknowledging any of the other identities, made her feel like she had at least the tiniest bit of control over something.

In retrospect, we can look and say hey, at least she only lost money. (Not that it was an insubstantial sum, and she did end up paying a LOT. Yes, she cancelled the charges, but Air New Zealand then went after her travel agent, and Turimel couldn't throw this innocent person under the bus.) Compared to the mental damage he's done to a number of people, it's easy to think she got off fairly easy and should be over it by now or whatever. But, you know. Andy fucking Blake.

(I know this is old. IDK how I missed most of this but stumbled on it last night and had one of those "settle in to read the weird shit he has done now" nights. I wish I hadn't missed the hiker Q&A because I would have asked things.)