continued Thatfucker discussion

[anonniemouse]

Since we've been kicked off FFA for the week, please feel free to continue the anon discussion here. Apologies if this is a big flop - I've never made a DW community before!

The rules are vaguely the same as they are over on FFA. Please refrain from being too much of an asshole, making personal attacks, posting identifying information or engaging in transfail.

ETA: If there's information you'd like to see archived (journal/blog posts related to Andy, etc.), please dump it here and link to it from the main post for discussing.

Comments

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Tomato reveal?

I feel like I should know what this refers to, but at this point I need a chart or something to graph all his crap. Thank god TB is working on the timeline.

DA by the way.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Sadly I failed to screencap the original post on his Facebook, which was a tvtropes page called something about being a tomato (I can find the link to the trope when I get off my phone, if that helps.) But I do have a screencap of the fb message wherein he "explained" to me that he'd just realized he was someone else's delusion.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, get ready to cringe a lot.

The tvtropes page he initially linked to on his facebook was this one:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TomatoInTheMirror

The screencap of his message to me is here:

http://carlanime.tumblr.com/post/116636523355/at-some-point-may-2nd-2012-or-februsary-5th

The message said: If you just guessed I have taken the staggering existential hit of discovering that I am a symptom of someone else's psychosis and everything I thought I knew about myself and my past, including my sex, isn't true...you win a prize. Not ready to talk about it in public yet. Still reeling in abject WTFery. Trying to make just calm down tea is how I burnt my hand.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

… wow. I really don't know what else to say.

Damn, he really is something else.

Thanks for sharing this stuff.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

You're welcome. I have no idea if any of this will ever be helpful to anyone, but just not keeping it secret feels good, especially since he probably sent the same "secret" messages to everyone.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

including my sex, isn't true

So what, every time he got naked, he somehow neglect to see his breasts and instead saw a penis and balls? Never saw any old pictures of himself? Never had any family members talk about his past in ways that would reveal it? Never realized he going to get shots of testosterone regularly? Never went through old messages and found some where his name was Amy? Never read any of his old journals?

Come on.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

I am DYING rn.

How is it possible that he ever thought anyone would take this seriously? It is logically, scientifically, pyschiatrically IMPOSSIBLE. FOR FUCK'S SAKE ANDY THIS IS JUST... AAGGGHHHH. "I'm a product of someone else's psychosis" ohhhhh Andy, IT. DOES. NOT. WORK. THAT. WAY. But whatever helps you sleep at night?

/sorry for the capslock everyone, I'm just. Yeah. Flabbergasted by this.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

More like whatever helps him keep someone else from sleeping at night. :/

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I mean...I'm cis, so I may be way off base here, but my understanding is that part of the reason gender dysphoria is so difficult and painful in the first place is that cognitive dissonance, yes? That you feel like you should have $BodyPart, and then you look down and see $OtherBodyPart instead? I mean, I can absolutely see where dissociation would come in as a protective mechanism, having had occasional episodes of my own while dealing with abuse-related PTSD...but then, of course, Andy can't possibly be an ordinary person, he has to be the specialest. IDKY I'm even bothering to remark on how anything doesn't work the way he claims it does.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

I'm trans and I have dissociative symptoms/episodes that sometime interfere with my dysphoria, but never to the extent of not seeing my actual physical body. I'm not saying that this is impossible, I'm just not seeing how someone could not see their body for years, which is what Andy's trying to say here.

Dysphoria is of course very personal experience, but isn't Andrew Blake persona supposed to be cis and thus not feel dysphoria? Yeah, this whole argument hurts my brain. Which is probably what Andy is aiming at.

Obviously not all trans men have so called female body parts though. I'm not interested in speculating what Andy looks naked bc ew, gross and inappropriate, but I think people seem to forget this often.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously not all trans men have so called female body parts though.

Maybe anon is uneducated but I really don't understand what you mean by this. Do you mean post-surgical trans men?

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yup, I was mostly thinking about post-op men, though there are also intersex trans men. But testosterone alone modifies one's body, making sex characteristics less normative.

This really has nothing to do with Andy though, but it always bothers me a little bit to see people making assumptions about trans bodies. A little pet peeve of mine, I guess.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

But testosterone alone modifies one's body, making sex characteristics less normative.

Trans nonny is going to be blunt for the confused. This isn't in regard to Andy specifically, just general info:

WARNING FOR POSSIBLE TMI

T does not make your breasts disappear, or your lower bits unidentifiable as a vulva. It makes your clit larger, sometimes quite a bit larger, but it doesn't change it so much you'd ever mistake it for a cis penis, nor does it ever give you a set of balls.

Some trans people may conceptualize their genital structures as their dick, their junk, etc. This isn't what Andy does. Andy has claimed in the past to have had a cis/AMAB penis, and as part of his abuse of Abbey, made a point of encouraging her to discuss it publicly in order to convince people he was not Amy Player/VictoriaBitter, who at that point was a missing person being desperately searched for by her parents.

Andy is full of shit: news at 11.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

There's some good discussion about this in gloves off, but basically Andy identifies as cis but (apparently) still experiences horrid gender dysphoria, has publicly transitioned and was AFAB.

I'll add that Andy has claimed in the past that Andrew Blake started out as an alter consciousness in female-identified "Amy's" mind, ie, a product of psychosis. Whom "Amy" demanded the truth never, ever be mentioned to, because althought "she" was aware of him, he was not aware of her, or that he was in an AFAB body. But that individual has gotten treatment for their supposed mental illness and is still Andrew Blake.

If all this makes your head hurts, it's not just you. Andy lies so much his lies form the mental equivalent of a tangled ball of yarn.

Personally, I think the truth is:

-Andy is trans (duh)
-Andy experiences gender dysphoria
-Andy is not and has never had a true psychotic break from reality
-Andrew Blake and Amy Player are the same person/consciousness
-Andy claimed otherwise in order to have people never bring up his past to him, so he'd never have to take accountability for it

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

I just checked the thread in gloves off, and the nonnie there managed to point out the flaws in Andy's "I'm cis even though I'm not!" logic, so my head hurts a little bit less now.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

the thing about Andy is, that whether through sheer luck or deliberation, he stumbled on something that is actually an issue among trans people

There are trans people who, after undergoing transition (whatever that may mean for them - usually hormones and genital reconstructive surgery) consider themselves no longer trans. I don't mean they go full stealth or say this for safety. I mean they will tell you "I was trans, I got better"(yeah, mostly these ppl subscribe to very medical models of trasness)(I mean, theoretically that would mean they no longer experience disphoria, but like, actually life is not as simple as that)

And like, look, I am angry when people say ~trans people are trans~! ~You don't get to say what you are!~ Because in general? Yeah, you do! Trans community is vast and large swaths of it are not visible, especially if you socialize primarily through web (some people are just *not* online).

Of course, I also think Andy is a liar and he is using the complicated nature of gender identity to obfscute. everything.

But like. Stop saying (the general you, not you sepcifically, nonny) "never in the history of ever" because with a community like this? Yeah, I guarantee you someone thinks/does that.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

"Never in the history of ever" what? That some people who used to identify as trans start to identify as cis because they view it as a medical condition that was resolved? Who here has claimed that hasn't happened?

I mean, personally I still don't see how they would qualify as cis as it's usually defined:

Cisgender and cissexual (often abbreviated to simply cis) describe related types of gender identity where individuals' experiences of their own gender match the sex they were assigned at birth.

All of which is kind of irrelevant, because if I don't think someone's identification makes sense, that's where it ends in 99% of cases. There's no real reason for me to speculate about it or publicize it, because whether I agree or not, individual people deserve privacy.

Unless, like Andy, they are abusive predators who are known to have used their identification to mask their past abusive behavior. Not his identity as male, mind you, but as a cis man specifically who could not be responsible for VB's abuses, because that was all his sister. His evil twin sister, his real sister, whichever was more convenient.

If I was being generous to Andy, I'd consider him the equivalent of a gay man who claims he's now straight because of the saving love of Jesus or conversation therapy. In other words, I think he identifies that way because of internalized ___phobia and shame. If I'm less generous, I'd say he identifies as cis because it allows him to run his game better.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

the point is, a lot of people experience their gender in ways that don't seem logical or don't mesh with dictionary definitions (like, the point of the word 'cisgender' existing is so we can have a word to say instead of "normal" not to further delineate gender, imo, we don't need more of that).

And like, people tend to take Andy's crap apart by logic, which doesn't really work for a personal issue like this, I think.

like, the anon I was replying to wrote "but basically Andy identifies as cis but (apparently) still experiences horrid gender dysphoria, has publicly transitioned and was AFAB" and the implication is, this doesn't happen. It does though, people like this exist.

that was my point when I said that Andy (99% probably) uses his gender to obfuscate and garner sympathy, but at the same time, he is saying things that are more plausibly than most people think.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

the point is, a lot of people experience their gender in ways that don't seem logical or don't mesh with dictionary definitions (like, the point of the word 'cisgender' existing is so we can have a word to say instead of "normal" not to further delineate gender, imo, we don't need more of that).

I think a lot of people would disagree with the idea that 'cisgender' and 'normal' are basically interchangeable.

I've never gotten the impression that cisgender is supposed to be a gender in and of itself. It refers to the fact that someone's GATB and their current gender identity are the same.

And like, people tend to take Andy's crap apart by logic, which doesn't really work for a personal issue like this, I think.

I think it does. The problem is that it very quickly reveals that some people's identification is not based on logic or on the object reality they've experienced, but instead is driven by emotion (as the previous anon pointed out) -- and often very negative emotions, at that. Some people find this distressing.

like, the anon I was replying to wrote "but basically Andy identifies as cis but (apparently) still experiences horrid gender dysphoria, has publicly transitioned and was AFAB" and the implication is, this doesn't happen. It does though, people like this exist.

That wasn't the implication I got at all. It's like pointing the inconsistency of someone identifying as straight, but at the same time claiming they are exclusively sexually attracted to the same sex.

Obviously people like this exist. That's not the issue. The issue is that what they're claiming doesn't make any sense. It's an inherent contradiction.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I'm trans, and in my discussions with many people who transitioned, I have indeed come accross some of them who now consider themselves cis, after having had all the hormonal and surgical treatments, so that their body is as perfect a copy of what it should have been as possible. I don't necessarily understand their reasoning, or agree with it when I understand it, but I can usually respect it.

The only times when I can't respect it is when it is insulting to people who still consider themselves trans. And this happens to be the case with Andy Blake.

When he says that he didn't want to admit that he had transitioned because he didn't want people to consider him "not quite a man", he's insulting trans men. When he says he didn't want to risk having people holding "his real gender" as a threat against him, he's insulting trans people. When he says that he feels good around cis men but not around trans men, he's implying that he can always detect who is trans and who is cis, that trans men can never fully pass for cis men, that trans men can never fully be men like any others, and that's insulting towards trans men.

The day he can explain why he identifies as cis without insulting trans people in the process, I'll respect his self-ID as cis, even if it makes no logical sense considering he hasn't had genital surgery, so his bodily sex is definitely not aligned with his gender, which by definition makes him trans, but whatever. In the meantime, I'll call it as I see it: internalized transphobia, which isn't surprising considering how deeply and horribly misogynistic he is.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe this is out of topic, but are there really lots of trans people who after transition identify as cis?

I myself am trans and I do know trans people who rarely use the trans prefix when talking about their gender and some of them leave the community entirely after transitioning, but I've never heard any of them to identify as cis. I mean, you can feel that the word trans doesn't describe you anymore without saying you're cis. Even cis people rarely use the word cis to describe themselves, so I find it a bit curious if post-transition people actively go around calling themselves cis.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[lb_lee]

Eh, dysphoria can come in a couple different flavors. There's the body dysphoria, which is the type you mentioned up there (and the kind I personally experienced), and then there's social dysphoria, which involves less, "my body should look like X" and more, "People should TREAT ME like X."

For instance, I mostly don't "pass," but I'm pretty much okay with that, because I cared about getting the body comfortable, not necessarily cis looking. Getting ma'amed and hit on is annoying or alarming, but not a dysphoric experience for me, while one of my trans friends pretty much pulled a reverse, seeking out what transition procedures would get them treated the way they wanted to socially, even if they were surrounded by cis people.

As far as Andy goes, though, I don't think it really matters. I'm trans and heavily dissociative, and if I COULD have dissociated out of dysphoria pain, I would've, but I couldn't. (Which is, y'know. WHY I TRANSITIONED.) And even if I could have, I would've seemed WAY out there to the people around me, because the amount of dissociation required would've made me a total gibbering zombie. I certainly wouldn't have been able to make a Facebook message that clear and coherent.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

You know, for some reason I read this the opposite way, as "everyone has been telling me I'm female my whole life, but it turns out I'm really male," which would back up his "I'm really a cis male" rhetoric.

Re: DIscussion of Facebook messages: Carlanime/Necromommycon and Andy

[(Anonymous)]

This is problematic because trans men are really men. He wants to imply cis men are real men and trans men aren't. I've seen in trans spaces where trans guys had to be moderated for saying nonbinary identities weren't real or were "hurting" binary trans people. I've also seen spaces where there was no moderation and a bunch of people just savaged the hell out of each other, which is really sad.

Andy is being REALLY OFFENSIVE when he starts up with that "I'm a real man so I'm cis" line of argument.