Gloves Off

[anonniemouse]

Please use this post for discussion of those contentious, murky, triggering issues too complex to discuss/moderate on the main post.

Note that this post is NOT a free-for-all and will still be modded for slurs, namecalling, doxxing and trolling. But fair warning that it will not be moderated for discussion of issues some find triggering (trans issues, mental illness, etc.) and that if you choose to participate here, you do so at your own risk.

Comments

ravenjeep & ptsd

[(Anonymous)]

chris is infuriating and I generally have nothing but contempt for him but I do genuinely wonder if some of his erratic behaviour and inconsistency is as a result of his ptsd - and more specifically, that ptsd being exploited by andy. his logic fails are typical of abusers' enablers, but they are so egregious in this case - and with his latest post - I really do wonder how much andy works at totally disorienting him behind the scenes. it doesn't excuse his apologism in the slightest (and let's face it - his appalling attitudes to rape & SA were not caused by trauma), but it does strike me that he is being fucked with psychologically in some really ugly ways by andy, and ways that are explicitly designed to play into his trauma.

Re: ravenjeep & ptsd

[(Anonymous)]

I've also been wondering this and really trying to be empathetic to him despite how obtuse he's being because he does seem weidly vulnerable in a way that I think makes it very easy for Andy to manipulate him. But then I look at his Tumblr page and see he's reblogged a quote that says" "You give them a taste of their own medicine, then they tell everyone that you posioned them." and I think "Fuckit, this dude just isn't worth it."

Re: ravenjeep & ptsd

[(Anonymous)]

As a person with PTSD, I'm rolling my eyes at this. Ravenjeep's problem is that he's A) too blind/arrogant/stupid (take your pick) to see he's getting played, or B) the prospect of recognizing he's been played by a predator for years is too emotionally daunting for him to accept. Probably a bit of both.

Not every dysfunctional thing a person is related to trauma.

[(Anonymous)]

FFA thread on "owning transness" and Andy: https://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/305497.html?thread=1855842905#cmt1855842905

[(Anonymous)]

My observation is FAA is officially more open to discussion of contentious subjects than TFT. Notice no one is trying to shut down that conversation because it's "offensive" or "off topic", there's no hand-wringing about whether it should be discussed at all, nor is the subject being helicoptered by mods. Everyone manages to have a reasonable discussion without being an asshole.

Body-painting accusations

[(Anonymous)]

I am looking for some more info on this. To my understanding, an anon sent someone(?) a message saying Andy had touched her inappropriately, then finelookingcat claimed she was the one who sent the first anon. Finelookingcat was an obvious troll. We’re they ever linked definitively to that first anon?

I think the original anon could have been telling the truth. The posse went into a frenzy trying to find this person, so the original complainant got frightened and bailed on following up on the accusations. Whoever was operating flc jumped in to delegitimize the original anon. Of course, that all hinges on the first anon not being linked via IP or something concrete.

Re: Body-painting accusations

[(Anonymous)]

http://theteablogger.tumblr.com/post/168549687992/hey-tb-were-there-two-different-people-who

The first anon said she was a body paint model for Andy. FLC was totally separate and never claimed to be that first anon.

tf-talk moderators complaining?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure if the details exactly are accurate, but I cant think of any other anon comms where there has been more activity recently with moderators that have frozen troll threads.

https://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/305497.html?thread=1857657689#cmt1857657689


Hopefully this won't be overly obvious or lead to a lot of speculation, but I'm looking for feedback/advice (and a vent spot) about anon comm things, and this seems as good a place as any to post it!

I moderate another anon comm, similar to this one in format but focused around a different set of (fairly sensitive) topics. Recently it's gotten a lot more active and I've had to freeze a few threads for various reasons...and the thing is, while DW anon posting is anonymous, as moderator I do get to see IP addresses and I've realized that basically EVERY contentious-or-inflammatory thread/subthread recently has been started by THE SAME FUCKING IP ADDRESS.

I can't tell if they're just a troll, someone involved with the anon comm topic trying to manage discussion or discredit the community, or what. But it's almost certainly the same person every time, whether they're kicking off a contentious thread or chiming in aggressively to an existing thread!

Right now what I'm doing is just keeping an eye on their activity and shutting down any threads/comments that actually break the rules, but there are a lot of lower-level contentious conversations going on that this person is stoking. I think that's the right move for now but it's super frustrating from my perspective (especially when they're complaining about my moderating, LOL)...and I can't help second guessing my judgment. Is my inaction creating potential problems, or is my impulse to "do something" just my own personal irritation and gossippy impulse to highlight someone's bad behavior? If I even were to "do something" what would I do, post a PSA that could devolve into a witchhunt??

Thank you all for being my diary today. To be honest, just venting about it to a relevant audience feels GREAT.

Re: tf-talk moderators complaining?

[(Anonymous)]

sa fwiw if this is about tf-talk I would rather see all of this poster's activity frozen if they seem to be here to cause wank, even if it is ambiguous in places. We already know from Chris on TumblR and the Facebook faq page that it's the Posse's mo to play dumb and exhaust people with flawed arguments and redundant questions.

Re: tf-talk moderators complaining?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah-- I remember back when things got weird briefly about Meg posting a year or two ago, and Teablogger took some criticism-- there was a really specific bad-actor vibe. Like-- things getting nasty in a surprising and rapid way. I think the mod has made good calls about which threads they freeze, and so on-- I have a lot of confidence in their judgement, and would trust their instincts on this, whichever way they decide. If it even is our comm, and our mod.

Andy and self-loathing?

[(Anonymous)]

Putting this here because it is pure speculation and I have no degree in mental health although I have gone through the broken system here in the US that is laughingly called mental heath care (according to my insurance company that also puts limits on the number of visits needed and who I can see but that's another rant)

Thanks to Abbey we have a clearer idea of what Andy has really be diagnosed with in the past from a real doctor than from some undead shaman.

How much of Andy's rewriting of his past is trying to re-invent himself into something that he can live with?

It seems every story about his 'real' past that he tells is shaped to make him look like the greatest thing since sliced bread. One must admire how well he can (fill in the blank) which is AMAZING since he has never or not done much with (fill in the blank).

The fact he has no basic knowledge in cooking surprises me not at all. He wants to skip the hard part and get onto the fun part (Like learning latin which is two years of suck before it becomes fun).

And that seems to be his attitude about working on/with anything. He wants to skip the part where he learns how to do the task( the boring part like how to re-enforce seams and how to build a pattern with seam allowance so that things move correctly) and move onto what he sees as the amazing part.

He seems to project onto others that which he loathes about himself. He must be a straight white male who has taken on all the traits and privileges that come with being a SWM so he 'apologizes' for being too manly because he doesn't understand what it is to be (fill in the blank of whatever he is trying to belittle or damn with faint praise). So trans people are not real people. Women are stupid and must be lead. Not even going into his views on POC because that's the one thing he can't lay claim to but I find it disturbing.

Everything he dumps on the hardest is something that he has been in the past.

And the only way he can make himself feel better is by tearing down any and all that might be doing better than him which happens to be most of the rest of us.

It's sad but I honestly feel no sympathy for someone who refused to see what they have done to others because in their version of reality, they did no wrong and the other party either did them wrong or didn't understand what was being done for/to them. (Gaslighting at its finest.)

Re: Andy and self-loathing?

[(Anonymous)]

i think it's two sides of the same coin when it comes to andy, really. i am not sure about the exact depth and shape of any self-loathing he possesses, but it makes sense that the monument of his narcissistic ego could have a long shadow.

Re: Andy and self-loathing?

[(Anonymous)]

Enh, I dunno if this is ANDY, but I have sorta known another really hardcore narcissist, and followed them for a long time (at a safe, far distance).

And something that struck me about him was how, underneath the grandiosity and pompousness and the grandstanding... there seemed to be this deep inchoate terror and dread, just below the surface. It was like this guy was running, running, running, constantly trying to fill this enormous void within himself with the Greatest Most Important Things Ever, because he couldn't bear to admit that he was a vaccuum, a hollow, empty man.

I don't think he was consciously AWARE of this, I want to emphasize that. But as I watched him dash back and forth like a demented beaver on acid, constantly trying to be the most important thing since sliced bread... I found it pathetic. The man was dangerous and terrifying and hurt so many people, and I found myself realizing that he had done so many awful things, and for what? He couldn't even truly ENJOY it, it seemed like.

Like, oh sure, he'd get some brief transitory pleasure at tearing down anyone who criticized him (threatened that superficial surface layer of perfection)... but it was like on some level, he raged so hard because THEY SCARED HIM SO BADLY. On some level, somewhere he'd never look or admit to, he knew they were right, and THAT'S why he'd go completely fucking apeshit if you told him his fanfiction wasn't Shakespeare. Because it threatened that fragile, paper-thin mask of perfection that he needed to believe existed.

His obsessive need to be constantly 100% perfect 100% of the time doomed him to eternal mediocrity, because he could never finish anything, never achieve anything of substance, never LEARN anything. He's middle-aged now, and he still acts and creates work on par of a gifted teenager.

I think that he's a dangerous, terrible person I never want to know. But I also think that he lives in a special hell of his own making that I am glad never to know. And he is never, ever going to escape it.

Now, if he could just stop destroying everybody around him in his constant need to outrun that hell, that'd be awesome, but that's the least probable thing of all.

lb_lee?

[(Anonymous)]

I was reading TeaBloggers timeline and following a link to Lb_Lee's DW and after reading the way they wrote about Andy I'm supper confused. They wrote about Andy's claims like they think "channeling" or dragging others souls into your body is real Andy is just lying about it. What's the deal with them/their blogg

Re: lb_lee?

[(Anonymous)]

lb_lee is a system/multiple/what have you - someone who has dissociative identity disorder/multiple personality disorder. Thus they refer to themselves in the third person plural and refers to their different personalities.

So, to them, the concept of having multiple personalities inside one person isn't an issue. The issue is that how Andy describes it is nothing like how it actually is. So, even if you accept DID as a legit diagnosis (it's kind of contentious in the psych community), he's still lying about it. His version is clearly a pop cultural idea of it (complete with pop culture's idea of how mental health treatment works, with a miraculous rate of improvement).

No change? No empathy.

[(Anonymous)]

Something that I have been thinking about since a buddy of mine was at the wrong place at the wrong time and was in an active shooting. His friend was seriously injured and will be dealing with that injury the rest of their lives and it is affecting his mental health as well.

Is is just me or did getting shot at not change Andy at all? Other than using the shooting ad death of his friend for his own purposes, has there even been a sign that he was affected by it?

Or is he that much of a narcissist? For someone who says that he is so empathetic, he can't even pretend to care about others.

Re: No change? No empathy.

[(Anonymous)]

This has always bothered me. He just used it as grist for his narrative mill.
Of course I wasn't part of the daydian circle and don't know how he reacted in person but judging by his online postings he just seemed to show performative grief when it suited him.not that I'm really surprised by that.

Andy is deleting DAYD era stuff: new identity forthcoming?

[(Anonymous)]

So, Andy is going nuclear on a TON of stuff from the DAYD community, after his recent drama in LA. He’s even locked down his Facebook. You can’t search his name anymore. I think this thing in LA really shook him, in that this was the first time someone he preyed on in a fandom was alerted to his activities DIRECTLY because of the multitude of information on him on the internet. His LA host’s friend actually tangentially knew about Andy prior to this, then did some deep digging when he showed up in LA.

What NORMALLY happens is that the people trying to warn his potential victims is that the warning comes, not from a close, personal IRL friend, but from an anonymous, impersonal blog or internet acquaintance. Andy is then able to twist the narrative and his victim doesn’t look any deeper into the evidence- partly because there is SO MUCH fucking evidence. To get an accurate picture of how Andy operates, how shitty of a person, how abusive and DANGEROUS he actually is, you have to read, at very least, a novel’s worth of internet pages, sift through all the misinformation (tans misdirection) planter by Andy and his past followers...and all while he’s actively manipulating you into believing that he’s only being persecuted because he’s trans, or there’s a bitter ex, and that if you don’t believe him, you’re not a very good friend, are you, because he’s done ~so much~ for you.

The way he selects his victims is VERY telling. He doesn’t make friends the way a “normal” person does- by repeated meetings, as you’re brought together by similar interest or mutual friends or similar life experience. Obviously, everyone does make “random friends” sometimes. But Andy has an MO: he finds people online, who have NO IDEA who he is, then paints a picture of who he wants them to THINK he is (ex his Oirsh, IRA, fought on both sides of the Troubles persona of DAYD days, his SJW, but maaanly man of his tumblr/supernatural days, etc.) He does this so he can: 1 control the narrative around himself and his past- they are either not told about his abusive past (...though is it a past if he never stops?!) or they’re given a highly editorialized version (like he did with his LA landlord,) 2 because it allows him to better manipulate the people around him (IRA refugee is a lot more sympathetic than “manipulative rapist who lies about mental illness.)

By the time they hear about him from AA blogs or other online connections, he’s already got.a foot in the “don’t believe those crazy tinhatters” door and enough pull on them to manipulate them into not looking deeper. Again, there is SO MUCH information to wade through that most people just don’t. It almost seems crazy, that there’s so much discussion of him, that it bolsters his claims that we’re all just tin hat nutters....until you realize you’re dealing with a dangerous, manipulative, rapist asshole who is unrepentant and NOT changing. Then you’re like “omg, this makes sense.” But when he’s still just some cool dude you met online who’s maybe kinda weird but really nice to you? I can see how someone could choose to believe his version of events.

Anyway, my point is that I think this forum serves a really important purpose in documenting and informing the public about Andy. And now that I see him HARD deleting a lot of things from his DAYD and Brittany era, I’m scared that the proof, the information, the kinds of things that you read and make you go “omg he’s manipulating the SHIT out of these poor fucking people who are doing what they think is right” are disappearing. And that scares me, because the ONLY way to prevent another BOE, another DAYD, hell, another Orangeblossom and Brittany and Diamond...the only way to prevent that is to MAKE SURE that this kind of proof doesn’t disappear.

I have a bunch of screenshots I took of the DAYD comm and his LJ at the time before he went nuclear on it.

I don’t have a tumblr, plus I felt weird messaging TeaBlogger because I’m sure they’re very busy with real life and they have no obligation to constantly keep up with the blog, but a lot of the links in their timeline are dead links now. I don’t know if TB screen shotted for posterity, but if they want the SS I have, I’ll gladly email them, if they give me an email address.

I might be paranoid, but fuck, when I think about the fact that he literally mind-fucked Brittany into doing things she’s NEVER ordinarily do- like trying to blackmail he WIDLY UNSTABLE ex husband into paying money to her (Andy, really)...I mean, he convinced OB that her mom had abused her. Which she now regrets, wholeheartedly. And judging by Operation Catch And Release, her mom is actually amazing. I know we don’t bring up Jason’s extortion because it could, theoretically, paint a murder victim in a bad light...but I don’t think that’s true. I firmly believe that Andy convinced Brittany the abuse was real and the threats valid. I don’t think she was a grifter. I don’t think she was any kind of bad person. I think that, with the evidence presented by what OB has written on the subject, it’s safe to assume he had Brittany mindfucked to the extreme. He just didn’t account for Jason being as unstable as he was- in the past, other guys he’s done this to (like OBs ex husband) have either just ponied up the cash, or told him to go fuck himself.

No one but Jason is responsible for Brittany’s death, but Andy DEFINITELY destabilized an already contentious relationship for his own gain. She had already left Jason and MOVED OUT before Andy. Maybe Jason was always going to go bugshit in that exact manner- we’ll never know -but all signs point to “probably not.”

Okay, sorry, TLDR. I hope this made sense.

Re: Andy is deleting DAYD era stuff: new identity forthcoming?

[(Anonymous)]

What recent drama in LA?

The Dichotomy of Man

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get the flip-flopping between the "I am a pretty bishi boy" and "I am a grizzled MAN who's HARDCORE and TOUGH." I get that there's probably some dysphoria-related anxiety wrapped up in there somewhere, but like, pick one, dude. TBH he can't pull off either convincingly anymore, but it's a way harder sell to try to pull off both at the same time.

Re: The Dichotomy of Man

[(Anonymous)]

I was just thinking this the other day. It's going to be interesting to see how he handles aging, as a narc. Because I'm sure we'll still be seeing him popping up on the internet, in fandom in another 15 years or so - what else is he going to do since he's hitched his wagon to costume design and the peripheries of the entertainment industry. I expect he'll be e-begging for plastic surgery.

Re: The Dichotomy of Man

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's dysphoria or narcissism to want both, tbh. I mean, I oscillate between wanting to be an ethereal fairy princess waif, and wanting to basically be Tank Girl.

I think the weird part is him trying to convince others that he is both via very bad photoshop. (Seriously, look at the weird shape he gave his pupils). It's normal to have multiple facets of your personality, to play around with your appearance and wear different styles, and for your mood to vary. It's another thing entirely to photoshop yourself and complain about how hard life is because you totes look like that for real, guiz.

The post was public and I went and found it, and someone made a disgusting comment about how his big bishounen eyes are how he managed to scam and hurt so many people, because some people have a weakness for big animu eyes. That's right: it's not Andy's doing, it's that he is just 2 kawaii 2 control. Inviting that kind of response is way more disgusting and sick to me than just wanting to be an anime boy.

Andy's marriage

[(Anonymous)]

Putting this here after crawling through the archives because I had no idea he married Meg, the lone standing member of the posse, and needed a sanity check. He spent years insisting that they had boundaries and were totally nonsexual and were JUST FRIENDS, right? It felt like an echo of his DAYDverse totally-not-gay-or-sexual soulmate dudes to me. What was the indication that this changed? Did they have a big romantic wedding?

Either way I hope she's doing okay!

Re: Andy's marriage

[(Anonymous)]

He spent years insisting that they had boundaries and were totally nonsexual and were JUST FRIENDS, right?

Yes he did--although he also made that one post about how incredibly hot she was and how noble he was for turning down her sexual advances, and he often referred to her as his muse, so he was probably sending mixed signals for YEARS. As far as I'm aware, there were no signs that they were calling themselves anything but friends until one day he let it slip that they were engaged. They did, indeed, have a big romantic wedding.

Re: Andy's marriage

[(Anonymous)]

He was playing the unresolved sexual and romantic tension thing to the hilt. I've been the victim of that kind of thing too, and when I started to break away from it and move toward normal dating with other guys, he suddenly decided he wanted me after all, despite all the ~torment~ about it before. I got away from him after a couple years. But I wouldn't be surprised if something like that finally happened with Meg, and when Andy realized he might actually lose her, he finally committed to her. As much as he can commit to anything.

It's all just a story to him.